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Klas
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BIND DEMON

Sun 11 Nov 2018, 00:04

Heya

I ran into trouble with this spell yesterday. Our half elf blood mage used 4 WP and rolled two successes for a total power level of 7. The demon had stat=4 skill=3 gear=2 (an amulet) for the INSIGHT roll. Our interpretation of the spell, as written, is that it lowers skill dice (because that is the pool affected by negative modifiers). So... The demon rolled with stat=4 skill=-4 gear=2, scored 2 stat successes and 1 skill negative "success" for a total of 1 success. Because that is better than the blood mage's zero skill successes (he cast a spell, not a skill), the demon evaded the attempt.

But this doesn't seem to make any sense at all. Should we have treated the power level as 7 skill successes? Or should the mage have rolled for MANIPULATION separately?
 
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Fenhorn
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Re: BIND DEMON

Sun 11 Nov 2018, 01:19

Since the demon makes a resist roll, not an opposed roll he rolls (as you said):
4 base dice + 3 negative (skill) dice + 2 gear dice.

So you did the right thing. The Power Level of the spell has been taken into account in the form of the negative dice rolled. This was a very powerful demon when it comes to resisting Bind Demon (Wits 4 and insight 4 and a gear). The blood mage was lucky to get Power Level 7 with only 4 WP but so was the demon that rolled more successes on his "positive" dice than his negative.
“I’d say thistles, but nobody listens to me, anyway.” - Eeyore
 
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Klas
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Re: BIND DEMON

Sun 11 Nov 2018, 10:50

There are other talents that may also be resisted with INSIGHT. E.g. some minstrel talents and the STUN spell cause WP based damage that is lowered by INSIGHT successes. (I.e. these talents are resolved as OPPOSED ROLLS although the rules do not state that outright.) BIND DEMON is an outlier then because it is completely negated if the target rolls a single success. This doesn't sit right with me.

P.S
The word "resist" occurs in a few places to explain rule resolution but the rules do not have a RESIST ROLL feature. As written, BIND DEMON is resolved as two regular rolls. (One for spell power level and one for modified INSIGHT.)
 
Rasmus
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Re: BIND DEMON

Sun 11 Nov 2018, 19:33

BIND DEMON is an outlier then because it is completely negated if the target rolls a single success. This doesn't sit right with me.
Demons are nasty business and apparently not easily bound. Considering that they are especially feared by mages (referring to result 61 on the magic mishaps table) maybe its ok with an outlier – if its clearly understood before any attempts to BIND DEMON.  If fair warning is given to the player, then it sits right with me. If it comes as a nasty rules surprise, then I can see how it could dampen the mood.
 
To create a feeling of “resist roll”, I would probably let the player do the “skill negative roll” .
 
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Klas
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Re: BIND DEMON

Wed 14 Nov 2018, 23:28

Incidentally it was a magic mishap that necessitated a BIND DEMON. We did feel unhappily surprised by the rules right then but now that guidance to future expectations exists. I'll just have to throw more demons at my players to really teach them the rules :-p

I like your idea to let the player roll the negative dice to create an impression of an opposed roll. Thanks for the tip.
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