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Slings, thrown weapons and resource dice

Posted: Fri 21 Sep 2018, 10:36
by QuirkyAI
I have a question regarding slings and thrown weapons: for these items, does their use require a roll of the arrows resource dice? If not, how would you have a PC attempting to use them in melee as off-balance and impromptu melee weapons?

I just think that throwing weapons are a little too expensive for what they give you :(

Re: Slings, thrown weapons and resource dice

Posted: Fri 21 Sep 2018, 12:21
by Fenhorn
For slings I use the resource dice rule but instead of arrows and quiver a slinger use stones and beltpouch. Other thrown weapons are just weapons balanced for throwing.

Re: Slings, thrown weapons and resource dice

Posted: Fri 21 Sep 2018, 22:02
by QuirkyAI
For slings I use the resource dice rule but instead of arrows and quiver a slinger use stones and beltpouch. Other thrown weapons are just weapons balanced for throwing.
That's not a bad way of handling it, but that also means that it's extra information to keep track of. And it makes something like a knife or javelin thrower pretty weak (far more investment, similar or less damage to bows/crossbows, and no information as to whether they can be used as melee weapons). If I'm being honest, I would honestly either stick with throwing weapons doubling as melee weapons (maybe with a -1 penalty or something or take away their melee equivalent's special abilities), or have them be ranged only and use arrows (here abstracted as "ammo") as well. In fact, if "arrows" is closer to "ammo" them that means that your slings, arrows, bolts and spare knives/axes/javelins all come from a similar resource.
I'll think a little more about it. Mainly because I am worried that when I start this a player of mine will try a hunter/warrior that is a javelin expert (or just me, as that concept is pretty dang awesome!)

Re: Slings, thrown weapons and resource dice

Posted: Mon 24 Sep 2018, 10:13
by Rymdhamster
Not all groups might agree to this, but an argument could be made that you can apply both the knife fighter and throwing arm talents when using throwing knives. And spear fighter + throwing arm for throwing spears. The second tier abilities would not be usefull of course, but the possible bonus of +2D6+2D8 is pretty signigicant =)
If the group agrees, that is. I would also have said that knives/daggers, short spears and hand axes are prettty much interchangebal with throwing knives, throwing spears and throwing axes, so that fighting with a knife/spear/axe gíves you alot of versatility that bows for example don't. Although I cand definatly see how some groups might not agree with this at all.
I would also say that throwing weapons can (almost) always be recovered after use (unless they go over a cliff or something). They don't break unless you roll ones on the bonus dice after having pressed the roll. While a reduced resource die for ammunition simply means the ammunition is lost for ever. Most likley broken beyond repair, or just nowhere to be found.

Re: Slings, thrown weapons and resource dice

Posted: Tue 25 Sep 2018, 07:19
by Fleuri
We just discussed this within our group in our Session 0. A dwarven hunter specializes in throwing axes and he has four of them. His modus operandi will be chucking three of them and then getting into melee using the last one. The stats of it are similar to hand-axe, but whereas throwing axe can be thrown and hand-axe cannot, the latter has also traits 'edged' and 'hook', so I think it balances out.

Re: Slings, thrown weapons and resource dice

Posted: Mon 22 Oct 2018, 23:48
by pellejones
One problem we have with Sling is that when the players are hunting for food, they never have to roll the resource die, since a sling doesn't have one. Ergo, the sling breaks the economy of the game since the short bow is the next step. You can get 3 meat + 2 pelts for no cost but time.

Sling: +1 dmg, 1H, light. Price, 1
Short bow: +2 dmg, 2H, light. Price, 6 (+ arrows)

So a short bow costs resources to use (arrows), needs two hands so you cant have a shield in the other, and only grants one more damage in total... why would you ever get the short bow...

Re: Slings, thrown weapons and resource dice

Posted: Tue 23 Oct 2018, 01:00
by Erzaad
One reason would be that there are no talents that improve your skill with a sling. The Sharpshooter talent only works with bows and crossbows. That alone I could see as a major balancing factor between the two. Having a sling as a backup if you run out of arrows might work if it isn't intended to have trackable ammo.

EDIT: I'm wrong here. I forgot about Throwing Arm.

Re: Slings, thrown weapons and resource dice

Posted: Sat 27 Oct 2018, 20:15
by pellejones
 The Sharpshooter talent only works with bows and crossbows. 
Yes but THROWING ARM does exactly the same thing, but for slings. So that argument is moot.
The sling is still too powerful when it comes to "resource economy". Free ammo, and gives free food when hunting since it doesnt use any ammo.

Re: Slings, thrown weapons and resource dice

Posted: Sat 27 Oct 2018, 23:29
by Erzaad
Oh, I missed throwing arm.

Re: Slings, thrown weapons and resource dice

Posted: Sun 28 Oct 2018, 09:37
by The1TrueFredrix
The sling is still too powerful when it comes to "resource economy". Free ammo, and gives free food when hunting since it doesnt use any ammo.
I am not sure I have a problem with this. In the ancient world, slings were far more prevalent than bows, because they were cheap to make and had free ammo. (They did used to make ammo for slings, Romans called then Glades (? I think), but of course when you ran out you could just pick up a stone.) They also had better range and stopping power than (short) bows.* The disadvantage of slings is that you can’t use them (well) in close formation. So army vs army, bows are better, and that’s why, by the Middle Ages, slings are only really used for hunting. 
But until the mass combat rules for Forbidden Lands comes out  :D,  your party will be skirmishing at most, so the wise player will choose a sling over a short bow, unless they have also got the sharpshooter talent. 
*This particular “fact” gleaned through decades-old fireside conversations among re-enactors, not scientifically proven, though I am sure somebody has made a YouTube video on the subject by now, if you want to google it.  ;)