User avatar
Arnold
Topic Author
Posts: 101
Joined: Mon 06 Nov 2017, 20:06

Player knowledge

Thu 10 May 2018, 11:01

What do player characters know about the Setting at the start of the game?
What can I as a potential gamesmaster tell them?
As we look at the chapters Religion, History and Kin, i don´t think that all that stuff is common knowledge.

So, what do you think is basic for your players? What do they know about Halflings, Elven Rubins, dwarf clans, the history of the forbidden lands, Demons, the mist, the Rust Brothers, Elvenkind and frailers, orc clans, the religions, magic and so on?

And, even more important, what don´t they know?
 
User avatar
Brior
Posts: 891
Joined: Sat 09 Apr 2011, 10:59

Re: Player knowledge

Thu 10 May 2018, 13:40

I'd say give them the knowledge they need and could have aquired due to their background and nothing else (or various rumours). The rest they don't know. The game was designed so that you can learn as you go.
 
User avatar
Tomas
Site Admin
Posts: 4521
Joined: Fri 08 Apr 2011, 11:31

Re: Player knowledge

Thu 10 May 2018, 14:12

Exactly. As a general Rule, the PCs only know what's in the Players Handbook. That's also a design feature of the game - players don't need to learn the setting before playing, they can learn as they play.
Fria Ligan
 
Robandstuff
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon 13 Aug 2018, 17:41

Re: Player knowledge

Mon 13 Aug 2018, 18:55

Exactly. As a general Rule, the PCs only know what's in the Players Handbook. That's also a design feature of the game - players don't need to learn the setting before playing, they can learn as they play.
This was my initial assumption based on past experience with other games, but now that the beta versions of the GM and player's guides are out, I can't see how this would possibly work. Here's a few examples of cases where the information in the player's guide is lacking details that, I feel, the GM guide indicates that the general population would know.

- the player guide mentions Rust Brothers several times, but it doesn't give any background about who they are. In the GM guide, though, it's stated that Raven Sisters (who, incidentally, aren't mentioned in the player's guide at all, despite "being very popular in villages") are "always on their guard ... since the Rust Brothers pay anyone who captures a sister for them well". How could this be a well known arrangement, but none of the characters have any idea that the Raven Sisters exist, that Rust Brothers will pay for them, nor do they know anything about the Rust Brothers other than they're a feared cult group? 

- the player guide doesn't mention whiners at all, however the GM guide heavily implies that they're "commonly hunted" by humans and orcs because of the belief that their meat has healing and other magical properties. This seems like something that at least some, if not most or even all, PCs would be aware aware of. (The same is true of all the non-playable kin... I could see the players knowing only rumors and legends about them, but they just aren't mentioned at all). 

- The player's guide has essentially no information about any of the gods or religions in the world, despite the opening line of the GM's chapter about gods being "Religion is paramount to the humans of the forbidden lands, above all when it comes to separating friend from foe." A few of the kin descriptions get in to that kin's god a bit, but there's no consistency at all... about half the gods don't appear in the player manual at all (and for a few, their only mention is in the stronghold chapter, where it says you can build a shrine to a god you know nothing about...). The second sentence of the chapter about Gods in the GM guide is "Most of the Forbidden Lands humans worship either the raven god or the snake god..." and then goes on to explain a super basic origin myth for those two gods. The player's guide doesn't have the word snake (outside referencing the speed of one for a spell descriptor) or Wyrm (how the snake god is sometimes referenced in the GM guide), and raven (unless it is followed by the words land or purge) isn't even mentioned in the Human kin section, but it is referenced a single time in the Elf kin chapter right after it, which is the only mention of that god in the entire player book. 

I could probably go on and on, but frankly, saying that PCs shouldn't or don't need to know anything about the world when they start playing is just not possible and would be actively less fun for players and GMs, imo. Going further and calling it a "design feature" is frankly a bit of a cop out.  There should be, at a minimum, a summary of commonly known history, or at least some commonly held beliefs about history, a reference for commonly worshipped gods and their followers reputations, and more information about the various kin, playable and not. 
 
User avatar
Klas
Posts: 322
Joined: Sun 04 Nov 2012, 19:17

Re: Player knowledge

Mon 13 Aug 2018, 21:53

You should probably read the players' guide as a list of references into the game master's guide. That leaves you free to completely change whatever you want in the published material, without denying players info you think they should have.

Edit: It could be stated somewhere in GMs guide that players know more than what PG says and it's a free choice what it might be.
 
User avatar
Tomas
Site Admin
Posts: 4521
Joined: Fri 08 Apr 2011, 11:31

Re: Player knowledge

Mon 13 Aug 2018, 23:15

Hi!

The idea is that the Players Handbook contains the information that the players need to know to play the game. It's a baseline. It doesn't mean that no starting character can never know something from the Gamemasters Guide. It depends on the character's kin and background. The GM is free to divulge information that she deems reasonable. :)
Fria Ligan
 
User avatar
King_Kull
Posts: 372
Joined: Wed 22 Feb 2017, 16:11

Re: Player knowledge

Tue 14 Aug 2018, 23:29

Hi!

The idea is that the Players Handbook contains the information that the players need to know to play the game. It's a baseline. It doesn't mean that no starting character can never know something from the Gamemasters Guide. It depends on the character's kin and background. The GM is free to divulge information that she deems reasonable. :)
Makes absolutely sense to me. So the GM has the freedom to give information out as he sees it should be in his campaign. But when most of the world info would be in thw Players‘ Guide than it is difficult for the GM to make players forget ;)
I am king!
 
Mayor
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue 26 Dec 2017, 13:56

Re: Player knowledge

Wed 15 Aug 2018, 09:10

I plan to solve the problem with the PC:s lack of knowledge of the world by starting the campain in a adventure site of my own design, where the characters independent of race (dwarf, orc, wolf-kin, human - whatever) has been "fosterchildren" of an eccentric halv-elf, who has saved (or kidnapped) them from their respective people when they where small children. The adventure site has been very isolated, and they have very little knowledge of the world outside and - more importantly - they have more or less the same knowledge of the world. In that way, they can discover things together organicly as the story evolves. The adventure site is by design a place where they will not want to stay, and playing there for a session or two will help establish a baseline for what is "normal" for the PC:s. That way, discovering new cool stuff will be more exciting. Also, with something in common in their background, it is more natural for them to seek eachothers company, regardless of their race or background. At least, that is what I hope. :) 

Edit: If one of the player chooses to play an elf, the backstory might be different. But my thoughts on elves is that in their minds, memoires and personalitys does not work as it does for humans. Elves can change their bodies as they please, but their minds change in a way they sometimes can´t control. Memories dissapear, they forget skills as they learn new, and their personalitys change. That´s why 1000 year old elves is no more skillful (has more skillpoints at the start of the game) than a middle-aged human - he/she has forgotten many of the things he/she once knew (Even though he might remember a specific thing from a 1000 years ago). It also means, that a 1000 year old elf has been many different people during his lifetime, in a way. So it is possible for an elf to be kidnapped, and then have forgotten about it 25 years later.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 16 guests