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Damage and recovery

Posted: Sat 06 Jan 2018, 01:12
by Jeff Mindlin
Please some improvement on the damage system. Strength drops with damage - yes. Recovers with food (no rest or magic etc) I don’t like this at all
Agility recovered with water?
I’ll never be able to look my players in the eye and tell them that...

Re: Damage and recovery

Posted: Sat 06 Jan 2018, 02:14
by Fenhorn
Please some improvement on the damage system. Strength drops with damage - yes. Recovers with food (no rest or magic etc) I don’t like this at all 
Agility recovered with water? 
I’ll never be able to look my players in the eye and tell them that...
In the combat chapter you can read (although not alpha released in English yet) that to heal abilities you need to REST (one quarterday) and that you also need a "resource".
* Food for Damage (Strength).
* Water for Fatigue (Agility).
* Sleep for Confusion (Wits).
* Performance (skill use) for Doubt (Empathy).
Doubt can't be healed at the same time as Confusion (duh, you are a sleep and can't hear the lovely song). Rest b.t.w. is to doing nothing.
Critical Injuries must be healed by surgery (if severe, or you die) and then (if you live) time (usually 1-3 d6s days). During that time you have a penalty (depending on what critical injury you got). 

Example: So if you become broken by damage (i.e. Strength goes down to zero) you will get a critical injury. Lets say that you got Pierced Thigh. Pierced Thigh will heal in 1d6 days and during that time you will have a -2 penalty to your Move skill. The Strength points can be healed up after 6 hours of rest and a ration of food.

It is basically the same system as in MYZ (a little bit tweaked). That will not change. Sorry. I guess you will not be able to tell them then.

Re: Damage and recovery

Posted: Sat 06 Jan 2018, 03:51
by Jizmack
I’m very glad it’s the same as in MYZ. It works perfectly!

Re: Damage and recovery

Posted: Sat 06 Jan 2018, 09:37
by King_Kull
All in all I like the simplistic rules of the game. I hate to ba a rule lawyer ;)

Re: Damage and recovery

Posted: Sat 06 Jan 2018, 17:38
by 9littlebees
Yeah, I'm not a huge fan of the MYZ damage rules - I prefer the Coriolis system (Hit Points = STR+AGI and Mind Points = WIT+EMP) and was expecting to see it here.

That said, I've played MYZ many times with multiple groups, and all found it exciting without any real criticisms.  It certainly is more deadly than the Coriolis system, which I think is probably why we are seeing it again here in Forbidden Lands.

Re: Damage and recovery

Posted: Sun 07 Jan 2018, 00:08
by King_Kull
Yeah, I'm not a huge fan of the MYZ damage rules - I prefer the Coriolis system (Hit Points = STR+AGI and Mind Points = WIT+EMP) and was expecting to see it here.

That said, I've played MYZ many times with multiple groups, and all found it exciting without any real criticisms.  It certainly is more deadly than the Coriolis system, which I think is probably why we are seeing it again here in Forbidden Lands.
Hm, would it be possible to make this an optional rule that are included in the books? So the players can choose which system to use? Don’t have the rules of Coriolis at hand and don’t own MYZ therefore I can’t say if it’s so different that it will afford two damage scores for weapons and so on. And I don’t know if the combat cards would work with both systems.

Re: Damage and recovery

Posted: Wed 17 Jan 2018, 16:03
by Jeff Mindlin
While it is much better now that I understand you need rest too I still think the water-agility connection and similar just feel too “gamist/mechanical” and break the suspension of disbelief. It’s not complexity I want but a feeiling of believability.

Re: Damage and recovery

Posted: Wed 17 Jan 2018, 18:35
by 9littlebees
While it is much better now that I understand you need rest too I still think the water-agility connection and similar just feel too “gamist/mechanical” and break the suspension of disbelief. It’s not complexity I want but a feeiling of believability.
Yep, seeing as how "Starving" and "Dehydrated" are already built in as "Conditions", it might have been better to say that you cannot heal Strength or Agility if you have any Condition boxes ticked, which would also include Hypothermia and Sleeplessness.  In fact, this is probably an easy house-rule to implement, and would make the Conditions more relevant.

Re: Damage and recovery

Posted: Wed 17 Jan 2018, 18:59
by Eldhierta
While it is much better now that I understand you need rest too I still think the water-agility connection and similar just feel too “gamist/mechanical” and break the suspension of disbelief. It’s not complexity I want but a feeiling of believability.
Yep, seeing as how "Starving" and "Dehydrated" are already built in as "Conditions", it might have been better to say that you cannot heal Strength or Agility if you have any Condition boxes ticked, which would also include Hypothermia and Sleeplessness.  In fact, this is probably an easy house-rule to implement, and would make the Conditions more relevant.
That is in the rules. If you are suffering from dehydration/starvation/hypothermia you cannot heal agility/strength/wits until you drink/eat/get warm. As soon as the condition is cured, you can heal as per usual.

EDIT: Or did you mean that conditions should be interconnected?

Re: Damage and recovery

Posted: Wed 17 Jan 2018, 19:25
by 9littlebees
While it is much better now that I understand you need rest too I still think the water-agility connection and similar just feel too “gamist/mechanical” and break the suspension of disbelief. It’s not complexity I want but a feeiling of believability.
Yep, seeing as how "Starving" and "Dehydrated" are already built in as "Conditions", it might have been better to say that you cannot heal Strength or Agility if you have any Condition boxes ticked, which would also include Hypothermia and Sleeplessness.  In fact, this is probably an easy house-rule to implement, and would make the Conditions more relevant.
That is in the rules. If you are suffering from dehydration/starvation/hypothermia you cannot heal agility/strength/wits until you drink/eat/get warm. As soon as the condition is cured, you can heal as per usual.

EDIT: Or did you mean that conditions should be interconnected?
No, I didn't mean they should be interconnected, I just missed that section. Thanks!

I guess I can see both sides of the issue, though my plan personally is to make a hack with Wounds / Anxiety like in Coriolis, and have the Wounds recover differently, so this meta-gaming issue is avoided for my tables (eventually).

I also know my players won't like Water-to-heal-Agility. I like how the Misery type for Agility is "fatigue", which in my head should just need sleep... Adding the requirement for water seems like it's been done just to balance it with the other trauma types. But then Wits is decreased by Confusion, which requires sleep, too...

So yeah, I might just houserule something like this:

Strength, Agility and Wits only require sleep to heal and the conditions of starving / dehydrated / hypothermic to be cleared. I'd leave Empathy as is. I'd also limit how quickly Strength recovers based purely on rest (1 point per full rest, maybe), requiring herbal/magical intervention if the rate of healing needs to be increased. Haven't seen the Healing rules yet, so this may already be the case (for reference, MYZ allows full Strength recovery with one rest and a mouthful of grub).

But as I've said elsewhere, I still plan to initially playtest the game with RAW and see what my players think, so maybe it won't be an issue.