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King_Kull
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Re: Damage and recovery

Mon 29 Jan 2018, 09:26

+1 Klas
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lupex
Posts: 831
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Re: Damage and recovery

Mon 29 Jan 2018, 14:41

I am now thinking of a critical hit as the final blow in a combat to take down the enemy, kinda like in mortal kombat
Same here. Or it can be thought of as the ruinous accident that happens when the defender has become exhausted enough to fumble a bit, boom!
At any rate I would not allow my players to inflict crits before the enemy's stat is depleted as that just begs for abuse and would force me to respond in kind. Also consider that some crits are very lethal and characters need a specific talent to kill with impunity (or pay a WP and a point of doubt).
Do you think this then reduces the utility of the Executioner Talent as the combat is over by the time the crit is caused?
 
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Fragpuss
Posts: 98
Joined: Sun 23 Jul 2017, 14:02

Re: Damage and recovery

Mon 29 Jan 2018, 15:10

I am now thinking of a critical hit as the final blow in a combat to take down the enemy, kinda like in mortal kombat
Same here. Or it can be thought of as the ruinous accident that happens when the defender has become exhausted enough to fumble a bit, boom!
At any rate I would not allow my players to inflict crits before the enemy's stat is depleted as that just begs for abuse and would force me to respond in kind. Also consider that some crits are very lethal and characters need a specific talent to kill with impunity (or pay a WP and a point of doubt).
Do you think this then reduces the utility of the Executioner Talent as the combat is over by the time the crit is caused?
This has got me thinking about the cold-blooded talent and the 'coup de grace' rule as well. I can just about buy into the coup de grace rule for 'Playable-race' opponents, but a WP seems a bit costly. I don't think I buy into it for monstrous creatures and wild animals that you've just had to fight for your life against.
By the same token, if you've just inflicted a critical on someone that has condemned them to a slow, lingering death, a coup de grace could arguably be a kindness (admittedly I think I would struggle to deliver it myself...)
It's a tough one - I quite like the idea that neophyte adventurers gradually become hardened to killing rather than starting out as the fully-fledged murderhobos that we know and love from most games, but if you were engaged in exploring a bandit lair or on a dungeon crawl, would you really leave a broken enemy behind knowing that he might, over the course of a small number of hours, recover sufficiently to run for help.It feels a bit out of keeping with the stated flavour of the game - they're supposed to be Raiders and Rogues, not the A-Team.
I'd suggest maybe combining aspects of the Executioner and Cold-blooded talents into one. Does anyone need 3 re-rolls on the critical table? Really? Really really?
 
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lupex
Posts: 831
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Re: Damage and recovery

Mon 29 Jan 2018, 15:30

Same here. Or it can be thought of as the ruinous accident that happens when the defender has become exhausted enough to fumble a bit, boom!
At any rate I would not allow my players to inflict crits before the enemy's stat is depleted as that just begs for abuse and would force me to respond in kind. Also consider that some crits are very lethal and characters need a specific talent to kill with impunity (or pay a WP and a point of doubt).
Do you think this then reduces the utility of the Executioner Talent as the combat is over by the time the crit is caused?
This has got me thinking about the cold-blooded talent and the 'coup de grace' rule as well. I can just about buy into the coup de grace rule for 'Playable-race' opponents, but a WP seems a bit costly. I don't think I buy into it for monstrous creatures and wild animals that you've just had to fight for your life against.
By the same token, if you've just inflicted a critical on someone that has condemned them to a slow, lingering death, a coup de grace could arguably be a kindness (admittedly I think I would struggle to deliver it myself...)
It's a tough one - I quite like the idea that neophyte adventurers gradually become hardened to killing rather than starting out as the fully-fledged murderhobos that we know and love from most games, but if you were engaged in exploring a bandit lair or on a dungeon crawl, would you really leave a broken enemy behind knowing that he might, over the course of a small number of hours, recover sufficiently to run for help.It feels a bit out of keeping with the stated flavour of the game - they're supposed to be Raiders and Rogues, not the A-Team.
I'd suggest maybe combining aspects of the Executioner and Cold-blooded talents into one. Does anyone need 3 re-rolls on the critical table? Really? Really really?
I guess that is the thing, if an opponent is Broken, is there any point inflicting a critical hit?  I can see the point for player characters receiving a critical hit but most opponents wouldn't have an Executioner talent anyway.
 
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Fenhorn
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Re: Damage and recovery

Mon 29 Jan 2018, 16:10

Personally I like the fact that it costs WP to kill someone that is defenseless. If a player wants to become a bad ass raider with nearly no feelings towards life and death he has to take the talent. To represent that he has become more cold-blooded over time. While in another campaign no one has taken that talent because they play more heroic characters.

All it takes to bring someone back if they are broken is a successful Heal roll. This can be done in combat as well. Perhaps something that the GM usually don't do, but I use it in MYZ every now and then if I think it fits the NPCs descriptions.
“Thanks for noticin' me.” - Eeyore
 
LupNi
Posts: 45
Joined: Mon 02 Oct 2017, 13:08

Re: Damage and recovery

Mon 29 Jan 2018, 19:08

I do like having to spend a WP to kill a defenseless enemy, but I think Fragpuss has a point.
Some talents feel a bit underwhelming especially at tier 3 so combining Cold blooded and Executioner looks fine.
 
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Fragpuss
Posts: 98
Joined: Sun 23 Jul 2017, 14:02

Re: Damage and recovery

Mon 29 Jan 2018, 19:11

Personally I like the fact that it costs WP to kill someone that is defenseless. If a player wants to become a bad ass raider with nearly no feelings towards life and death he has to take the talent. To represent that he has become more cold-blooded over time. While in another campaign no one has taken that talent because they play more heroic characters.

All it takes to bring someone back if they are broken is a successful Heal roll. This can be done in combat as well. Perhaps something that the GM usually don't do, but I use it in MYZ every now and then if I think it fits the NPCs descriptions.
I can certainly see a justification for the WP cost (maybe not in all cases, though) and I don't hate the idea. I guess because I've not seen the system in action yet, I don't know whether spending a WP to finish someone off represents 'good value' compared to the other things you could do with it. 
The 'Doubt' cost makes complete sense in principle, but if combat-focussed characters are likely to have Strength and Agility as their highest attributes they'll have lower Empathy and delivering a coup de grace is going to be relatively more costly for them - although I suppose they're probably less reliant on Empathy-based skills. If you've got any insight from your games, it would be great to hear it. I suppose they're also more likely to take the cold blooded talent early on.
 
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9littlebees
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Re: Damage and recovery

Tue 30 Jan 2018, 02:35

Don't want to start a new thread, but I have a suggestion for Executioner.  Now, bearing in mind I haven't seen the Critical Injury table yet, but we know it's a d66 table, and I can assume that the higher number are more severe. See the attached image for the table as it appears in MYZ - I'm guessing we'll see something similar here...

So why not change the Executioner talent to grant a +10 to the Critical Injury roll at every level.  At Tier 3, you would get a +30 to whatever you roll, ensuring that the crit is always a 41 or higher, which means chopping ears off or blinding an opponent at the low end, while most of the injuries are lethal (this would tie in with the talent being called "Executioner").

Otherwise, three particaully bad d66 results might mean your Tier 3 Executioner only breaks his opponent's nose or fingers, etc.

Image
 
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Fragpuss
Posts: 98
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Re: Damage and recovery

Tue 30 Jan 2018, 11:04

That looks almost identical to the Coriolis crit table, so I think you're right, the tables in Forbidden Lands will probably be very similar.

A bonus to the dice roll would work, but I'm still not convinced it needs 3 levels of that. I'd still make the case for combining Executioner with some form of Cold-blooded. As general principle I'd prefer to see talent trees offering an interesting variety of effects rather than just escalating bonuses.
 
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lupex
Posts: 831
Joined: Sun 08 Oct 2017, 13:16

Re: Damage and recovery

Tue 30 Jan 2018, 11:09

That looks almost identical to the Coriolis crit table, so I think you're right, the tables in Forbidden Lands will probably be very similar.

A bonus to the dice roll would work, but I'm still not convinced it needs 3 levels of that. I'd still make the case for combining Executioner with some form of Cold-blooded. As general principle I'd prefer to see talent trees offering an interesting variety of effects rather than just escalating bonuses.
I think there are a few different tables based on the attack type, but they will all scale in lethality.

I don't object to the reroll mechanic, but agree 3 rerolls is excessive, as I like keeping it random, but a +10 approach does have merit and fits the flavour of the talent. If it is changed then the lucky talent will also need adjusting.
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