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lupex
Posts: 592
Joined: Sun 08 Oct 2017, 13:16

Re: Spending XP

Mon 08 Jan 2018, 10:20

I guess we will need to see how it works with proper testing. If the new talents (+1/+2/+3) feel at the right value for 3xp then it's all good, and a change in talent cost I will have to get used to. The suggestion to upgrade the dice was to make the talents feel of equivalent to 5xp or more and to make them more exiting than a vanilla +1/+2/+3 but as you say it might throw the whole thing out by giving too much of a bonus.

At the end of the day these are just out suggestions, I am sure the team at Fria Ligan will come up with a good solution.
 
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King_Kull
Posts: 369
Joined: Wed 22 Feb 2017, 16:11

Re: Spending XP

Mon 08 Jan 2018, 11:36

I guess we will need to see how it works with proper testing. If the new talents (+1/+2/+3) feel at the right value for 3xp then it's all good, and a change in talent cost I will have to get used to. The suggestion to upgrade the dice was to make the talents feel of equivalent to 5xp or more and to make them more exiting than a vanilla +1/+2/+3 but as you say it might throw the whole thing out by giving too much of a bonus.

At the end of the day these are just out suggestions, I am sure the team at Fria Ligan will come up with a good solution.
You summed it up quite good. I would go for a little higher cost for talents but make them more exciting that a +x bonus. In other games the skills and attributes are the skeleton and perhaps the muscles but the talents are the flesh and skin. They make what a character can do more special.
Perhaps a rank 1 talent for 3XPs will give only +1, a rank 2 talent for 6XPs will give +2 and you can ignore one 1 if you push your roll. And rank 3 for 9XPs give you +3 and... Don’t have any idea but I think you will get the meaning.
I am king!
 
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Eldhierta
Posts: 369
Joined: Thu 19 Feb 2015, 10:39

Re: Spending XP

Mon 08 Jan 2018, 13:05

Artifact dice should not be gained with the same XP cost a skill.

D6: 0.17 hits per dice roll.
D8: 0.50 hits per dice roll or the equivalent of 3D6.
D10: 0.90 hits per dice roll or the equivalent of (5.4)D6.
D12: 1.33 hits per dice roll or the equivalent of 8D6.

For 5XP you get +1D6 if you increase a skill.
If you get +1D8 by getting a talent then it should cost you 15XP because statistically it’s the equivalent of +3D6.
A D12 would then cost 40XP!!

Yes, I understand that talent dice are limited to one type of weapon, but how often do characters change their weapon type? It’s not much of a limitation.
Good point. So make first tier give +1 to the skill, second tier some weaponspecific shenanigans and third tier let's you upgrade the +1 from tier one to a D8?
 
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King_Kull
Posts: 369
Joined: Wed 22 Feb 2017, 16:11

Re: Spending XP

Mon 08 Jan 2018, 13:13

Artifact dice should not be gained with the same XP cost a skill.

D6: 0.17 hits per dice roll.
D8: 0.50 hits per dice roll or the equivalent of 3D6.
D10: 0.90 hits per dice roll or the equivalent of (5.4)D6.
D12: 1.33 hits per dice roll or the equivalent of 8D6.

For 5XP you get +1D6 if you increase a skill.
If you get +1D8 by getting a talent then it should cost you 15XP because statistically it’s the equivalent of +3D6.
A D12 would then cost 40XP!!

Yes, I understand that talent dice are limited to one type of weapon, but how often do characters change their weapon type? It’s not much of a limitation.
Good point. So make first tier give +1 to the skill, second tier some weaponspecific shenanigans and third tier let's you upgrade the +1 from tier one to a D8?
Also a good idea :)
I am king!
 
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lupex
Posts: 592
Joined: Sun 08 Oct 2017, 13:16

Re: Spending XP

Mon 08 Jan 2018, 18:19

Artifact dice should not be gained with the same XP cost a skill.

D6: 0.17 hits per dice roll.
D8: 0.50 hits per dice roll or the equivalent of 3D6.
D10: 0.90 hits per dice roll or the equivalent of (5.4)D6.
D12: 1.33 hits per dice roll or the equivalent of 8D6.

For 5XP you get +1D6 if you increase a skill.
If you get +1D8 by getting a talent then it should cost you 15XP because statistically  it’s the equivalent of +3D6.
A D12 would then cost 40XP!!

Yes, I understand that talent dice are limited to one type of weapon, but how often do characters change their weapon type? It’s not much of a limitation.
Good point. So make first tier give +1 to the skill, second tier some weaponspecific shenanigans and third tier let's you upgrade the +1 from tier one to a D8?
Are there other fancy weapon manuevre talents already?
 
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Eldhierta
Posts: 369
Joined: Thu 19 Feb 2015, 10:39

Re: Spending XP

Mon 08 Jan 2018, 23:24

Artifact dice should not be gained with the same XP cost a skill.

D6: 0.17 hits per dice roll.
D8: 0.50 hits per dice roll or the equivalent of 3D6.
D10: 0.90 hits per dice roll or the equivalent of (5.4)D6.
D12: 1.33 hits per dice roll or the equivalent of 8D6.

For 5XP you get +1D6 if you increase a skill.
If you get +1D8 by getting a talent then it should cost you 15XP because statistically  it’s the equivalent of +3D6.
A D12 would then cost 40XP!!

Yes, I understand that talent dice are limited to one type of weapon, but how often do characters change their weapon type? It’s not much of a limitation.
Good point. So make first tier give +1 to the skill, second tier some weaponspecific shenanigans and third tier let's you upgrade the +1 from tier one to a D8?
Are there other fancy weapon manuevre talents already?
There are, but only for the profession talents and specific game changers like Quick Shooter. I think.
 
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Tomas
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Posts: 4475
Joined: Fri 08 Apr 2011, 11:31

Re: Spending XP

Wed 10 Jan 2018, 00:47

Great discussions here! We're pushing hard to get the next batch of English chapters done so you can see for yourselves what the talent system looks like.

What I can say is that while there are talents in the form of +1/+2/+3, there are also plenty of other talents with more unique effects.
Fria Ligan
 
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lupex
Posts: 592
Joined: Sun 08 Oct 2017, 13:16

Re: Spending XP

Wed 10 Jan 2018, 01:12

Great discussions here! We're pushing hard to get the next batch of English chapters done so you can see for yourselves what the talent system looks like.

What I can say is that while there are talents in the form of +1/+2/+3, there are also plenty of other talents with more unique effects.
I would be interested in hearing the design reason behind the change in XP cost, if you are happy to share?
 
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Tomas
Site Admin
Posts: 4475
Joined: Fri 08 Apr 2011, 11:31

Re: Spending XP

Wed 10 Jan 2018, 23:58

Sure! The short answer is that the reason is that talents are now tiered. In MYZ, talents generally give a +2 bonus and cost 5 MP. In FBL, level 1 of a talent typically gives a +1 bonus, and we felt that with a 5-point cost it would always be better to raise a skill level.

Another reason is to break of the 5 XP = advancement rule of MYZ. In FBL, you get the chance to improve your character at only 3 XP. The player gets the choice of whether to use them or save them for a skill increase at 5 XP.
Fria Ligan
 
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lupex
Posts: 592
Joined: Sun 08 Oct 2017, 13:16

Re: Spending XP

Mon 15 Jan 2018, 11:15

Sure! The short answer is that the reason is that talents are now tiered. In MYZ, talents generally give a +2 bonus and cost 5 MP. In FBL, level 1 of a talent typically gives a +1 bonus, and we felt that with a 5-point cost it would always be better to raise a skill level.

Another reason is to break of the 5 XP = advancement rule of MYZ. In FBL, you get the chance to improve your character at only 3 XP. The player gets the choice of whether to use them or save them for a skill increase at 5 XP.
That does make sense, and I can understand the reasoning behind the change but it will unfortunate mean that the utility of non-tiered talents will have to be kept limited to keep their 'value' at 3xp compared to a 5xp skill increase.
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