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King_Kull
Posts: 369
Joined: Wed 22 Feb 2017, 16:11

Re: Spending XP

Sat 06 Jan 2018, 14:37

I'm shooting from the hip somewhat at this stage, I may change my mind completely once I see the full set of talents in context alongside the combat system, etc. but here goes:

I definitely agree with Lupex on cost. I'd prefer to see consistency in the skill/talent costs at 5XP (as is done in Coriolis) for administrative purposes. 

Coriolis also has single level talents, with quite a few that give a +2 bonus (often in specific circumstances though) and I quite like that simplicity. For me there are two issues with the +1/+2/+3 tiers, the first is practical (and, yes pretty weak and a bit OCD, I know :geek:) - If you're just adding dice to the pool, you may end up having to pad out your nice shiny set of custom dice quite quickly. The second is more important, it just feels a bit 'vanilla', I'd hoped to see something a bit more flavourful - using talents to alter the mechanics, not just padding skill scores. 

As an example, for a 'swordsmanship' talent I'd like to see something like a +2 for the first level (or better still add a d8 rather than 2d6) and at higher levels either a bonus action like a free parry attempt or quick attack (assuming combat has the same sort of Action Point mechanic as Coriolis), access to special manoeuvres or maybe the ability to ignore/re-roll one 'skull' if you push a roll.

Looking forward to getting to grips with the rest of the translation.
I agree with all of the above, it would be great if a tier 3 talent allowed you to roll a D12 instead of a D6, you could then describe yourself as a legendary swordsman, or legendary rogue etc.
I kind of like this suggestion. But then the tiers could be Rank 1 a d8, Rank 2 a d10 and three a d12. Less dice but more impact. I don’t think that would unbalance the system when the cost will be higher. Than I totally agree with a cost of 5XPs for a talent, perhaps the Legendary rank should cost 10XPs? Or you have to pay 3XPs or 5XPs times the Rank of the talent?
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Eldhierta
Posts: 368
Joined: Thu 19 Feb 2015, 10:39

Re: Spending XP

Sat 06 Jan 2018, 15:23

I'm shooting from the hip somewhat at this stage, I may change my mind completely once I see the full set of talents in context alongside the combat system, etc. but here goes:

I definitely agree with Lupex on cost. I'd prefer to see consistency in the skill/talent costs at 5XP (as is done in Coriolis) for administrative purposes. 

Coriolis also has single level talents, with quite a few that give a +2 bonus (often in specific circumstances though) and I quite like that simplicity. For me there are two issues with the +1/+2/+3 tiers, the first is practical (and, yes pretty weak and a bit OCD, I know :geek:) - If you're just adding dice to the pool, you may end up having to pad out your nice shiny set of custom dice quite quickly. The second is more important, it just feels a bit 'vanilla', I'd hoped to see something a bit more flavourful - using talents to alter the mechanics, not just padding skill scores. 

As an example, for a 'swordsmanship' talent I'd like to see something like a +2 for the first level (or better still add a d8 rather than 2d6) and at higher levels either a bonus action like a free parry attempt or quick attack (assuming combat has the same sort of Action Point mechanic as Coriolis), access to special manoeuvres or maybe the ability to ignore/re-roll one 'skull' if you push a roll.

Looking forward to getting to grips with the rest of the translation.
I agree with all of the above, it would be great if a tier 3 talent allowed you to roll a D12 instead of a D6, you could then describe yourself as a legendary swordsman, or legendary rogue etc.
I kind of like this suggestion. But then the tiers could be Rank 1 a d8, Rank 2 a d10 and three a d12. Less dice but more impact. I don’t think that would unbalance the system when the cost will be higher. Than I totally agree with a cost of 5XPs for a talent, perhaps the Legendary rank should cost 10XPs? Or you have to pay 3XPs or 5XPs times the Rank of the talent?
How about 3XP for tier 1, 5XP for tier 2 and 10XP for tier 3? Then the players can get moderately profficient pretty cheap, but becoming a true master is gonna cost ya.
 
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King_Kull
Posts: 369
Joined: Wed 22 Feb 2017, 16:11

Re: Spending XP

Sat 06 Jan 2018, 17:08

If it’s going to be a better die than I would prefer 5, 10 and 15XPs because this is a real boon and therefore it has to have a high cost.
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9littlebees
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Re: Spending XP

Sat 06 Jan 2018, 17:44

Here's an alternative suggestion to the above tiered talent cost suggestions (and an easy to implement houserule): change the cost of skills so that they are a multiplier based on the skill rank, as many other games do.  Let's say (picking a number out of the air here) it's 3x the new skill rank.

So improving a skill from rank 2 to rank 3 would cost 3x3=9 XP.  Improving a skill to the max rank of 5 would cost 15XP.

Talents would be a bit more lucrative at 3XP, or they could all be set to a slightly higher 5XP to balance the skill changes.
 
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lupex
Posts: 591
Joined: Sun 08 Oct 2017, 13:16

Re: Spending XP

Sat 06 Jan 2018, 20:42

Here's an alternative suggestion to the above tiered talent cost suggestions (and an easy to implement houserule): change the cost of skills so that they are a multiplier based on the skill rank, as many other games do.  Let's say (picking a number out of the air here) it's 3x the new skill rank.

So improving a skill from rank 2 to rank 3 would cost 3x3=9 XP.  Improving a skill to the max rank of 5 would cost 15XP.

Talents would be a bit more lucrative at 3XP, or they could all be set to a slightly higher 5XP to balance the skill changes.
I wouldn't generally object to this but it is a big departure from the XP costs of the other games.
 
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Arnold
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Re: Spending XP

Sat 06 Jan 2018, 21:27

I didn´t like the idea of getting access to d8, d10 and d12 through talents. 
These dice seems to be really mighty, and the players should only get them through mighty items.
This way, the gamesmaster can direct how many of them are in game.

What would be if an expert swordsman (talent swordsman level 3) with a mighty magic sword attacks?!
2 d12 + x d6!
Thats not what i want, folks. 
 
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King_Kull
Posts: 369
Joined: Wed 22 Feb 2017, 16:11

Re: Spending XP

Sun 07 Jan 2018, 00:17

I think that’s not too overpowering. If you increase the cost for talents. And if the opponents can get as tough as the characters. Yes, 3d6 aren’t anywhere as powerful as a d12 but I like the idea of a legendary swordmaster. But this only MHO ;)
And perhaps it could ruin the game balance but I don’t know the System good enough.
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Eldhierta
Posts: 368
Joined: Thu 19 Feb 2015, 10:39

Re: Spending XP

Sun 07 Jan 2018, 01:06

I didn´t like the idea of getting access to d8, d10 and d12 through talents. 
These dice seems to be really mighty, and the players should only get them through mighty items.
This way, the gamesmaster can direct how many of them are in game.

What would be if an expert swordsman (talent swordsman level 3) with a mighty magic sword attacks?!
2 d12 + x d6!
Thats not what i want, folks. 
Well, (s)he would be a legendary swordsman with a legendary sword. I think it may be valid if (s)he came across as a wee bit powerful. Bare in mind that 18-30 xp (depending on which path tier-cost takes) has been spent solely on swordsmanship. That's quite a large investment (averaging 3 xp a session that would be all your xp for 6-10 sessions). And it's only one die that is upgradeable and I would hazard a guess that legendary magic swords that give d12s won't grow on trees.
 
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Fragpuss
Posts: 79
Joined: Sun 23 Jul 2017, 14:02

Re: Spending XP

Sun 07 Jan 2018, 12:17

I must admit, I'd worry a bit about dice inflation with the d8/d10/d12 tiers, I'd prefer to cap it at d8 and then add things like extra attacks, bonus damage or reduced critical ratings (do weapons have crit ratings as they do in Coriolis?). Don't know how the card-based manoeuvre system works, but maybe there's a way to grant an advantage in that, e.g. make the opponent reveal one of their cards early?

I'm only familiar with Coriolis, not MY0, so I'm interested to see how combat works - it looks like physical damage depletes Strength and 0 = incapacitated? That would mean most people have 2-4 'hit points', so the outcome of individual 'duels' could easily be determined by whoever gets the first swing in. I'm more keen than ever to see the rest of the translation now - we need to be able to take a holistic view (and maybe a quick playtest). I'd love to know what feedback our swedophone comrades have provided so far.
 
Jizmack
Posts: 56
Joined: Fri 12 Feb 2016, 23:48

Re: Spending XP

Mon 08 Jan 2018, 09:43

Artifact dice should not be gained with the same XP cost a skill.

D6: 0.17 hits per dice roll.
D8: 0.50 hits per dice roll or the equivalent of 3D6.
D10: 0.90 hits per dice roll or the equivalent of (5.4)D6.
D12: 1.33 hits per dice roll or the equivalent of 8D6.

For 5XP you get +1D6 if you increase a skill.
If you get +1D8 by getting a talent then it should cost you 15XP because statistically it’s the equivalent of +3D6.
A D12 would then cost 40XP!!

Yes, I understand that talent dice are limited to one type of weapon, but how often do characters change their weapon type? It’s not much of a limitation.
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