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Fenhorn
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Re: Alpha- Rules

Tue 16 Jan 2018, 18:47

The spells are very powerful and are not meant to be cast like some sort of magic missile.
We had a testsession the other day and WP was earned and spent quite frequently I must say, by all classes. You usually earn your WP when making skill checks that uses attributes that you are good at (less risky and also more chances to get WP). All players need to make themselves useful in a group so they make skill checks.

There are spells that you can cast with only 1 WP (can often be enhanced with ingredients so it counts as 2 WP). We noticed that, 3-4 WP is not uncommon for players to have most of the time, regardless of class. A spellcaster doesn't roll to see if he succeeds with a spell or not, but instead he make a roll to see if he gets a misfire or not (the spell still works). There are spells that can suck WP out of a target. Death Magic also have a spell that can temporary increase your WP (ingredient for that one is a sacrifice). It is also not that hard to bind magic. Technically, spend WP and create a temporary magic item that you can use later.
“I’d say thistles, but nobody listens to me, anyway.” - Eeyore
 
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9littlebees
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Re: Alpha- Rules

Tue 16 Jan 2018, 19:42

I'll wait to try it out, but I think I will houserule magic to use a point-less system (as discussed in the sorcery thread). I dislike D&D magic and don't think it fits the setting, personally. Magic requiring a sacrifice is definitely awesome, and it's something I plan on implementing for more than one branch of magic (Norse-flavoured divine magic, anyone?).
 
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King_Kull
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Re: Alpha- Rules

Wed 17 Jan 2018, 09:34

I also will houserule magic. Every caster will get one rote spell that he can use without spending 1 WP. And it will be like he is using 1 WP. If he want more punch he has to use WP. And I think every caster will begin every session (or day) with 1 WP. It a roleplaying game and not a rollplaying game. I don’t want to force players to roll tests only to collect WP. Not sure that I like this gathering of WP very much... Because you collect WP but you suffer Misery to the tested attribute - hooray... No, didn’t like this rule.
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Tomas
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Re: Alpha- Rules

Wed 17 Jan 2018, 10:50

Hello!

More chapters are on the way, we will share the fully laid out chapters 4-6 (including combat and magic) in a few days!

Regarding the magic rules - while houseruling is obviously fine, I would recommend that you try the official rules out, or at least read them, before discarding them. :)

I will explain the design philosophy behind the rules and how they are meant to play out. Firstly, there are a few common problems with magic that I have experienced in other games that we want to solve in Forbidden Lands:
  1. Magic users are pretty much useless at everything except magic. That makes playing a magic user quite limiting.
  2. Starting magic users are generally quite bad at magic too. This means that they need to spend all their XP on getting better at magic, compounding problem #1 above.
  3. When the magic users have risen in skill/level, they instead become overpowered.
  4. The most important one. To limit the use of magic, many systems have a finite number of mana point or similar to spend, or a system where you build up "corruption" or something by using magic, causing negative effects. The problem with these systems is that they, a little simplified, mean that a magic user can use magic in the beginning of a scenario/session, but not at the end (at which time the mana is gone or the corruption has increased too much). This creates a suboptimal dramatic arc - we want to unleash the awesome spells at the final boss fight, not in the first encounter!
So, with this in mind, this is how magic works in Forbidden Lands:
  • Magic users (sorcerers and druids) can be almost as good as the other professions at non-magical skills, such as swordplay. We want fights to be like in the LotR, where Gandalf swings his sword with skill and saves his magic for it's really needed.
  • Even starting magic users can cast powerful spells.
  • Our way of limiting the use of magic turns problem 4 above around - in order to use magic, you must first use other skills, to build up your Willpower Points. This comes naturally during the flow of the game, as magic users can be quite skilled at other activities too. You will never need to "force" your players to make skill rolls to collect WP, it's a dynamic and natural flow in the game.
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King_Kull
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Re: Alpha- Rules

Wed 17 Jan 2018, 11:53

Hello!

More chapters are on the way, we will share the fully laid out chapters 4-6 (including combat and magic) in a few days!

Regarding the magic rules - while houseruling is obviously fine, I would recommend that you try the official rules out, or at least read them, before discarding them. :)

I will explain the design philosophy behind the rules and how they are meant to play out. Firstly, there are a few common problems with magic that I have experienced in other games that we want to solve in Forbidden Lands:
  1. Magic users are pretty much useless at everything except magic. That makes playing a magic user quite limiting.
  2. Starting magic users are generally quite bad at magic too. This means that they need to spend all their XP on getting better at magic, compounding problem #1 above.
  3. When the magic users have risen in skill/level, they instead become overpowered.
  4. The most important one. To limit the use of magic, many systems have a finite number of mana point or similar to spend, or a system where you build up "corruption" or something by using magic, causing negative effects. The problem with these systems is that they, a little simplified, mean that a magic user can use magic in the beginning of a scenario/session, but not at the end (at which time the mana is gone or the corruption has increased too much). This creates a suboptimal dramatic arc - we want to unleash the awesome spells at the final boss fight, not in the first encounter!
So, with this in mind, this is how magic works in Forbidden Lands:
  • Magic users (sorcerers and druids) can be almost as good as the other professions at non-magical skills, such as swordplay. We want fights to be like in the LotR, where Gandalf swings his sword with skill and saves his magic for it's really needed.
  • Even starting magic users can cast powerful spells.
  • Our way of limiting the use of magic turns problem 4 above around - in order to use magic, you must first use other skills, to build up your Willpower Points. This comes naturally during the flow of the game, as magic users can be quite skilled at other activities too. You will never need to "force" your players to make skill rolls to collect WP, it's a dynamic and natural flow in the game.
Hm, thank you very much for the insight in the design philosophy. It's very much appreciated! :)
That a caster can use a weapon as good as any other character is one thing that I have thought about a lot. But the gear for the classes (Spellbinder and Druid) show Dagger and Staff. But if a caster can use a battle ax or a sword and that's the way the game world is functioning, it makes sense to me and I will try it - I can houserule always later ;)
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9littlebees
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Re: Alpha- Rules

Wed 17 Jan 2018, 12:11

Thanks for the explanation, Tomas, makes a lot more sense and I for one will definitely be trying magic with the Rules As Written, despite being an obsessive tinkerer. ;-)

Also looking forward to reading the next 3 chapters!
 
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9littlebees
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Re: Alpha- Rules

Wed 17 Jan 2018, 12:12

Hello!

More chapters are on the way, we will share the fully laid out chapters 4-6 (including combat and magic) in a few days!

Regarding the magic rules - while houseruling is obviously fine, I would recommend that you try the official rules out, or at least read them, before discarding them. :)

I will explain the design philosophy behind the rules and how they are meant to play out. Firstly, there are a few common problems with magic that I have experienced in other games that we want to solve in Forbidden Lands:
  1. Magic users are pretty much useless at everything except magic. That makes playing a magic user quite limiting.
  2. Starting magic users are generally quite bad at magic too. This means that they need to spend all their XP on getting better at magic, compounding problem #1 above.
  3. When the magic users have risen in skill/level, they instead become overpowered.
  4. The most important one. To limit the use of magic, many systems have a finite number of mana point or similar to spend, or a system where you build up "corruption" or something by using magic, causing negative effects. The problem with these systems is that they, a little simplified, mean that a magic user can use magic in the beginning of a scenario/session, but not at the end (at which time the mana is gone or the corruption has increased too much). This creates a suboptimal dramatic arc - we want to unleash the awesome spells at the final boss fight, not in the first encounter!
So, with this in mind, this is how magic works in Forbidden Lands:
  • Magic users (sorcerers and druids) can be almost as good as the other professions at non-magical skills, such as swordplay. We want fights to be like in the LotR, where Gandalf swings his sword with skill and saves his magic for it's really needed.
  • Even starting magic users can cast powerful spells.
  • Our way of limiting the use of magic turns problem 4 above around - in order to use magic, you must first use other skills, to build up your Willpower Points. This comes naturally during the flow of the game, as magic users can be quite skilled at other activities too. You will never need to "force" your players to make skill rolls to collect WP, it's a dynamic and natural flow in the game.
Hm, thank you very much for the insight in the design philosophy. It's very much appreciated! :)
That a caster can use a weapon as good as any other character is one thing that I have thought about a lot. But the gear for the classes (Spellbinder and Druid) show Dagger and Staff. But if a caster can use a battle ax or a sword and that's the way the game world is functioning, it makes sense to me and I will try it - I can houserule always later ;)
Nothing stopping us from making custom professions which use RAW mechanics!
Last edited by 9littlebees on Wed 17 Jan 2018, 13:21, edited 1 time in total.
 
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King_Kull
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Re: Alpha- Rules

Wed 17 Jan 2018, 12:36

Hello!

More chapters are on the way, we will share the fully laid out chapters 4-6 (including combat and magic) in a few days!

Regarding the magic rules - while houseruling is obviously fine, I would recommend that you try the official rules out, or at least read them, before discarding them. :)

I will explain the design philosophy behind the rules and how they are meant to play out. Firstly, there are a few common problems with magic that I have experienced in other games that we want to solve in Forbidden Lands:
  1. Magic users are pretty much useless at everything except magic. That makes playing a magic user quite limiting.
  2. Starting magic users are generally quite bad at magic too. This means that they need to spend all their XP on getting better at magic, compounding problem #1 above.
  3. When the magic users have risen in skill/level, they instead become overpowered.
  4. The most important one. To limit the use of magic, many systems have a finite number of mana point or similar to spend, or a system where you build up "corruption" or something by using magic, causing negative effects. The problem with these systems is that they, a little simplified, mean that a magic user can use magic in the beginning of a scenario/session, but not at the end (at which time the mana is gone or the corruption has increased too much). This creates a suboptimal dramatic arc - we want to unleash the awesome spells at the final boss fight, not in the first encounter!
So, with this in mind, this is how magic works in Forbidden Lands:
  • Magic users (sorcerers and druids) can be almost as good as the other professions at non-magical skills, such as swordplay. We want fights to be like in the LotR, where Gandalf swings his sword with skill and saves his magic for it's really needed.
  • Even starting magic users can cast powerful spells.
  • Our way of limiting the use of magic turns problem 4 above around - in order to use magic, you must first use other skills, to build up your Willpower Points. This comes naturally during the flow of the game, as magic users can be quite skilled at other activities too. You will never need to "force" your players to make skill rolls to collect WP, it's a dynamic and natural flow in the game.
Hm, thank you very much for the insight in the design philosophy. It's very much appreciated! :)
That a caster can use a weapon as good as any other character is one thing that I have thought about a lot. But the gear for the classes (Spellbinder and Druid) show Dagger and Staff. But if a caster can use a battle ax or a sword and that's the way the game world is functioning, it makes sense to me and I will try it - I can houserule always later ;)
Nothing stopping us from making custom professions which uae RAW mechanics!
Absolutely correct! :)
I think I will change items in Gear. Think that could be enough for the beginning.
I am king!
 
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Arnold
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Re: Alpha- Rules

Wed 17 Jan 2018, 17:41

Sounds good, Tomas.
I would like a magic system that fits in the fantastic world AND in the whole game system.
So what you layed out seems well thought through.

I really like that thing about the different ways to perform magic (blood, runes, death, stones) and that you are able to learn more than one of them with much luck and work.
I am really looking forward in reading more ...
 
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9littlebees
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Re: Alpha- Rules

Thu 18 Jan 2018, 17:48

@Tomas

I just tried printing the first 3 Alpha chapters (I find it a lot easier to read on paper than on a screen) and noticed that there is a very light grey background on every page.  This makes it extremely expensive to print at home, as every page is effectively filled in with ink.

Is there any chance you can turn this background off and possibly resend it with the next chapters, as well as keeping the background off of future alpha releases?  My printer and wallet would be ever so grateful!!
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