Crashw1re
Posts: 26
Joined: Sat 07 Oct 2017, 12:05

Re: Hidden Combos

Sat 07 Oct 2017, 12:24

Hey Guys, first timer here. Absolutely love Mutant Year Zero and have played a lot with my group. When I saw Forbidden lands, I backed pretty much instantaneously. Loving everything I am seeing so far. Especially the exploration and strongholds side of the game. Anyway I thought I'd weigh into the hidden combo system teased. 

It looks very interesting and potentially very exciting. If anyone played War for Edadh, that had a RPS style system that took into account various things such as your armies exhaustion and strategy seamlessly and I would love to see similar here. 

I have a few concerns some of which have been mentioned. The bogging down the gameplay being the primary one as one of the main appeals of the Year Zero system is its speed. I really like the stunt system and I would assume that disarms ect would be triggered off a stunt. This keeps combat moving and no one is beating around the bush when it comes to selecting an action. Also if you choose to only use it for certain combats will talents associated with this system become less useful. Finally I'm worried that the amount of work done by the GM will be quite significant. With a large group they will be playing a RPS game against 4+ different people, draining energy and focus and bogging things down as multiple different cards are chosen as they attempt to predict multiple different people. 

I know that's a list of concerns but I like the theory behind the system and have mused on how such a system could be used in a RPG after playing War for Edadh. I am hopeful it can be implemented smoothly into the game, without damaging the aspects of Year Zero that make it unique and brilliant. 
 
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Peter
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Re: Hidden Combos

Sat 07 Oct 2017, 12:39

Welcome to the forum! Like you I think there is a lot potential in the idea and look forward to hearing more about the combos. :)

The point you raise regarding talents being usable had crossed my mind as well, but I suppose the solution is pretty straightforward - make sure that combat related talents have effects both for regular combat and hidden combat. If this means two separate types of effects then so be it.
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Patrick
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Re: Hidden Combos

Sat 07 Oct 2017, 13:23

As currently described, I would not use hidden combos.  The basic combat system has enough excitement and options, assuming extra sixes can be used for special effects as in Coriolis.  Anything extra would slow down the game.  My table will use area movement rather than a battle grid for the same reason.  I'm hoping hidden combos is an easily ignored option, available for those who enjoy it.  
 
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Fenhorn
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Re: Hidden Combos

Sat 07 Oct 2017, 13:36

HârnMaster has extra tactical options in combat when jousting. There is a lot of tactics in combats in HM, but the extra added tactical options (that some players have put on to cards to make them easier to use) when you do jousting (or any dual situation when on horseback) gives an extra flavour to the combat. It doesn't take that much extra time. Of course it's not practical in mass combats or in battles against monsters, but you are not suppose to use it in those situations.
The same can be said about the tactical cards in Forbidden Lands (I guess). Perfect for smaller one-on-one battles, but for "mass" combat situations or battles against monsters, the more simplified combat rules will be used and if those more "simplified" combat rules are like those in MYZ, then there still will be tactical choices, not just that extra layer that the cards will provide.
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Peter
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Re: Hidden Combos

Sat 07 Oct 2017, 13:54

As currently described, I would not use hidden combos.  The basic combat system has enough excitement and options, assuming extra sixes can be used for special effects as in Coriolis.  Anything extra would slow down the game.  My table will use area movement rather than a battle grid for the same reason.  I'm hoping hidden combos is an easily ignored option, available for those who enjoy it.  
Yes, I think its important that the Hidden Combos are properly optional (and that weapons and talents are balanced and appropriate for regular combat too)
Fria Ligan has past form on this kind of stuff so Im not worried :)
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Chep
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Joined: Sat 07 Oct 2017, 16:41

Re: Hidden Combos

Sat 07 Oct 2017, 16:57

Hi, I'm a backer and excited by this system. I'm glad to hear that these combat mechanics have been inspired by more authentic combat, but therein lies my concern.

If the basic assumptions made about melee combat that support the development of the system are incorrect, it could make for a frustrating experience or necessitate heavy house-ruling. I'm a UK based medieval re-enactor and HEMA practitioner, certainly no authority on historical combat, but I do have some insights as this is a personal interest.

To cut to the gist, you mention in your "project update #22" that it is much easier to parry a thrust than a cut/slash/hew/chop with a shield. I'd have to disagree pretty heavily with this point, but perhaps it was merely a typo. I won't go into specifics or a more detailed discussion in this post, but I can elaborate if my concern is heard.

Besides this, I am very excited about this project as a whole and wish you all the best with making an incredible product!
 
Harper
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Re: Hidden Combos

Sat 07 Oct 2017, 17:40

I'm a UK based medieval re-enactor and HEMA practitioner,
What's HEMA?
 
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Jurij 1138
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Re: Hidden Combos

Sat 07 Oct 2017, 17:43

I'm a UK based medieval re-enactor and HEMA practitioner,
What's HEMA?
My bet is Historical European Martial Arts, or so Google tells me.
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creativehum
Posts: 27
Joined: Sat 30 Sep 2017, 17:02

Re: Hidden Combos

Sat 07 Oct 2017, 17:51

I finally puled the trigger and back Forbidden Lands. There's too much goodness here. So for the first time I posted on the Kickstarter Page -- about the Hidden Combos.

I'm going to repost here, since I remember this is where discussions are supposed to go. This is a follow up of my previous post on this thread, but with a bit more detail now that I have more information.

I'm a big fan of the MYZ mechanics for combat and skills. Thus, I was very excited to hear that FL would be built primarily form the MYZ mechanics. The rules provide quick resolution with lots of variable results, along with some fun choices for the Players regarding Pushing.


While I appreciate that Free League will do an amazing job tweaking the mechanics to bring the setting and theme of a fantasy setting to the front, I'm content to leave what doesn't need to be changed as is.

With that said, like others, I have concerns about the Hidden Combos. Most of this comes down to the player group fighting a single opponent or the player group fighting many opponents. And, of course, the matter of the Referee needing to choose combos for each of the NPCs he is controlling in a group fight. (Will each combo he chooses really be specific for each NPC against each specific PC? Or will the choices become a kind of blur as he's handling such a fight?)

For example, the note below makes it clear there will be two sets of combo moves in the deck, one for the attacker, one for the defender. However, if I have five players in my group (for example) that means the deck must be passed around to each player as their initiative comes up. While this isn't that big a deal, it will add up over the duration of a combat. 

Moreover, while everyone won't have their own set of cards, I would want (as the referee) for each player to be thinking about which combos they will want to choose BEFORE their turn comes up. This, again, is not that big a deal. Ultimately, providing a printed list of the combos and effects for each player to choose from while the rest of the fight is going on will help in this. However, once one provides such a list, why use the cards at all? The Referee can secretly choose his two combos, the player simply declares his two combos (with cards or without), and then the Referee reveals his two cards. This solves the problem of having to pass around the cards... but then why are the cards there?

Ultimately what I care about is that there is an alternative system available -- as interesting and exciting and as efficient as the one found in MYZ. While it might turn out I love the hidden combo system once I get to try it out, I want to make sure there is something that as solid as the MYZ fully integrated into the Forbidden Lands rules to use if we find it not to our taste.

Again, absolutely blown away by the other products thus far. Looking very much to getting to play Forbidden Lands at my gaming table.
 
Harper
Posts: 143
Joined: Mon 11 Sep 2017, 20:17

Re: Hidden Combos

Sat 07 Oct 2017, 20:55

I'm a UK based medieval re-enactor and HEMA practitioner,
What's HEMA?
My bet is Historical European Martial Arts, or so Google tells me.
I thought about google, but it's better first hand, lol
(Swear I'm not lazy)
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