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King_Kull
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Hidden Combos

Fri 06 Oct 2017, 16:52

The above system might seem complex, but it’s being playtested internally right now and it’s actually quite fast - the attacker and defender just choose two actions each (using cards), reveal them and go! Still, we will likely give the option of saving the hidden combo system for fights against major enemies, and using a simplified system for lesser mooks.
This is from the last Update.
I would say the hidden combo system will be nice when used if there are are an equal number of PCs vs. NPCs or one or two big baddies. But if the PCs are outnumbered and the opposition are minions I would like to have a swifter resolution.
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Peter
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Re: Hidden Combos

Fri 06 Oct 2017, 17:05

I like the elegance of the rock-paper-scissors (which is certainly retro enough - Hello Dungeonquest/Drakborgen! :) ) and the simultaneous declare/poker-phase element.

My reservation would be if it makes combat feel restrictive - that you are limited to a set number of combat moves rather than freely describing what your PC does. It's probably partly psychology so depends on how it is presented.
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creativehum
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Re: Hidden Combos

Fri 06 Oct 2017, 17:12

I'm tentatively curious about this.

I can see the appeal of such a system. But I also like the quick resolution that MYZ already offers. 

I can see the Hidden Combo use for significant duels or fights. But if one only uses it for significant duels or fights, then people won't be used to it (there won't be enough practice on the part of the players) so the very important fight is fought kind of blindly.

Finally, from a design simplicity perspective, if the system can be resolved without the combos, then why the combos? I understand they offer more. But I would love to hear what "more" is offered, since I could run the game without the combos and never know I was missing anything. 

That's not a knock on the Hidden Combo system. I really don't know it yet. Just some thoughts about how I design working and a real curiosity as to what they offer.
 
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King_Kull
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Re: Hidden Combos

Fri 06 Oct 2017, 17:14

I think you can describe with flourish what you will be after showing your combat maneuver card. We played Streetfighter and that worked very well.

What I don’t understand yet is that you have one slow and one fast action. And in melee combat you use your two actions for the hidden combo. Is one maneuver a slow the other a fast maneuver. And what if I move with a fast action - can‘t I use the hidden combos?
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Erzaad
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Re: Hidden Combos

Fri 06 Oct 2017, 17:31

Assuming hidden combos get implemented for melee characters, what will ranged characters have that makes their combat similarly interesting?

Raider with an axe: I enter an intense RPS duel to the death with the orc!
Ranger with a bow: ...I fire an arrow. Done.
 
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Peter
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Re: Hidden Combos

Fri 06 Oct 2017, 17:47

So far we know of the following moves and how they interact with other elements of the rules :)
  • Stab (long action) (swords, spears)
  • Chop (long action) (swords, axes)
  • Dodge (long action?)
  • Disarm (short action?)
  • Push (short action?) (the Steady talent gives you a bonus against push)
  • Parry (short action?) (it helps to have a shield - the Defensive talent gives you a free Parry per turn)
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creativehum
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Re: Hidden Combos

Fri 06 Oct 2017, 17:49

I think you can describe with flourish what you will be after showing your combat maneuver card. We played Streetfighter and that worked very well.

What I don’t understand yet is that you have one slow and one fast action. And in melee combat you use your two actions for the hidden combo. Is one maneuver a slow the other a fast maneuver. And what if I move with a fast action - can‘t I use the hidden combos?
The update said "As the defender, you might choose to hold off on using both of your actions, and save one or both of them for later in the turn - at the risk of getting struck of course."
So I suspect one can make a move and then have one action for combat, thus using one card when you take the action. 
If you are already in place to engage in melee, then you two actions. 
 
ChaosAptom
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Re: Hidden Combos

Fri 06 Oct 2017, 21:58

Could work well, could fail miserably. I am on the fence, but tend to like the idea. I guess I will have to trust the testers.
I agree with problems with ranged fighters, on the other hand I remember Legolas's arrow sticking to orc-head, then firing arrow at other orc...
 
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King_Kull
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Re: Hidden Combos

Sat 07 Oct 2017, 01:21

I think you can describe with flourish what you will be after showing your combat maneuver card. We played Streetfighter and that worked very well.

What I don’t understand yet is that you have one slow and one fast action. And in melee combat you use your two actions for the hidden combo. Is one maneuver a slow the other a fast maneuver. And what if I move with a fast action - can‘t I use the hidden combos?
The update said "As the defender, you might choose to hold off on using both of your actions, and save one or both of them for later in the turn - at the risk of getting struck of course."
So I suspect one can make a move and then have one action for combat, thus using one card when you take the action. 
If you are already in place to engage in melee, then you two actions. 
Hm, yes that might be the case.
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Aryxbez
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Re: Hidden Combos

Sat 07 Oct 2017, 10:58

I actually am wondering if it's only going to be for Melee, as then it seems like it would be kinda punishing them in a way with ways to get countered/blocked/disarmed/etc. Which case it seems like it would encourage PC's to wield ranged weapons instead to bypass Hidden Combos, and better defeat their targets.

Imagine also a better way to see to the longevity of the PC's in combat, by providing a more consistent Soak Roll (possibly paired with a Soak Value as well), so they're capable of going through more combats. I'm not sure how the pacing of encounters and like go in like Mutant: Year Zero, where a game deadlier than Shadowrun leaves me the impression a single combat could grind exploration to a halt, unless the PC's win on initiative or surprise attack.
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