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lupex
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Re: Class Speculation

Fri 27 Oct 2017, 01:09

An Orc warrior-poet sounds awesome
 
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Brior
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Re: Class Speculation

Fri 27 Oct 2017, 08:04

An Orc warrior-poet sounds awesome
I personally see this as in tune with the setting and story, the orcs dreaming of their proud future while lamenting the past and cursing others. This said, I can't promise this being a playable option.
”Howler?”
 
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Eldhierta
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Re: Class Speculation

Fri 27 Oct 2017, 11:12

An Orc warrior-poet sounds awesome
I personally see this as in tune with the setting and story, the orcs dreaming of their proud future while lamenting the past and cursing others. This said, I can't promise this being a playable option.
”Howler?”
"The famous orcish warrior-poet "Howler" Pel'le Alm-qv'st and his disease-ridden band "The Hives" will be playing at this years Rockskald Rampage at a location yet to be disclosed. Check out your closest notice board for more information" / Ravenland Times
 
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negromaestro
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Re: Class Speculation

Fri 27 Oct 2017, 12:58

Also, if the Forbidden Lands elves still follow the "noble elves trope" it might also make sense to restrict "Raiders" (distinct from warrior) as a class not open for those of the elf race? 

In our modern "me" culture everyone wants everything all the time, but I think, a fantasy setting has more character if it is not afraid to use some old tropes if those tropes tell good stories.  
Don't know if I would call a race (elves) that enslaved another race (orcs) for several generations noble though...

And as for the race-restriction on classes, as long as you can think of a believable background for your PC, I think they should all be free game for every race. The orc skald is actually a great example for an orc variant of the minstrel-class. Or warrior poet. Rockskalds anyone?
"Noble" is a matter of perspective and the elven bards would surely create poetry to espouse the noble nature of their race, irrespective of what others may think of them. :-)

Speaking of tropes, the availability of every class available to everyone is a modern trope too. Nothing wrong with allowing every Player to play any class, but the game world could treat those unique choices as being that rare non-conformist hero showcased by the Player Character, while the game world still retains some flavor of the different and distinct cultures being defined by certain professions much more than others. 
 
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Brior
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Re: Class Speculation

Fri 27 Oct 2017, 13:32

Don't know if I would call a race (elves) that enslaved another race (orcs) for several generations noble though...
"Noble" is a matter of perspective and the elven bards would surely create poetry to espouse the noble nature of their race, irrespective of what others may think of them. :-)
A note on ”nobility” in the elvish context: I've read some books of Nietzsche, and while I don't always sympathize or agree with the man, I almost always find him interesting and sometimes use his thoughts – also in FL. Among other things, Nietzsche makes a difference between slave-morality that deals with good vs evil, and master-morality that deals with worthy of respect vs unworthy. Master morality, which is aristocratic in nature, would for instance be in line with 19th century ”White Man's Burden” or British officers in WWI taking their German officer prisoners' word as gentlemen not to escape and then dine together far from any common soldiers.
The elven view on nobility in FL, to me is very much of the master-morality-type. They detest the unworthy, think that orchs are an inferior breed that naturally should stay down and consider ”evil” deeds doable without flinching if these are considered necessary. Indeed, it would be unworthy and dishonourable to flinch while doing them. The concept of good and evil in their opinion is secondary. Add to this that they don't really think short-lived ”meatbags” are equal to them in the first place – ”if something anyway will die in a meager fifty years, what's the big deal in me killing it now?”

Don't know if you like this, but I personally find it pretty interesting. Even in their songs, elves probably won't see the need of picturing themselves as ”good”. They settle for being honourable, authentic, stoic, responsible and worthy of respect – as individuals and as a kin.
 
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King_Kull
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Re: Class Speculation

Fri 27 Oct 2017, 14:41

Don't know if I would call a race (elves) that enslaved another race (orcs) for several generations noble though...
"Noble" is a matter of perspective and the elven bards would surely create poetry to espouse the noble nature of their race, irrespective of what others may think of them. :-)
A note on ”nobility” in the elvish context: I've read some book of Nietzsche, and while I don't always sympathize or agree with the man, I almost always find him interesting and sometimes use his thoughts – also in FL. Among other things, Nietzsche makes a difference between slave-morality that deals with good vs evil, and master-morality that deals with worthy of respect vs unworthy. Master morality, which is aristocratic in nature, would for instance be in line with 19th century ”White Man's Burden” or British officers in WWI taking their German officer prisoners' word as gentlemen not to escape and then dine together far from any common soldiers.
The elven view on nobility in FL, to me is very much of the master-morality-type. They detest the unworthy, think that orchs are an inferior breed that naturally should stay down and consider ”evil” deeds doable without flinching if these are considered necessary. Indeed, it would be unworthy and dishonourable to flinch while doing them. The concept of good and evil in their opinion is secondary. Add to this that they don't really think short-lived ”meatbags” are equal to them in the first place – ”if something anyway will die in a meager fifty years, what's the big deal in me killing it now?”

Don't know if you like this, but I personally find it pretty interesting. Even in their songs, elves probably won't see the need of picturing themselves as ”good”. They settle for being honourable, authentic, stoic, responsible and worthy of respect – as individuals and as a kin.
You receive my thumbs up! :)
I am king!
 
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Brior
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Re: Class Speculation

Fri 27 Oct 2017, 15:04

The elven view on nobility in FL, to me is very much of the master-morality-type. They detest the unworthy, think that orchs are an inferior breed that naturally should stay down and consider ”evil” deeds doable without flinching if these are considered necessary.
I should add that I don't see ALL elves as being proto-fascist a**holes. Some are genuinely kind and friendly and even apologetic about how the orcs have been treated historically. One of my ambitions in describing ALL intelligent beings in the game is that there should be a range of attitudes and behaviour, making things more interesting and also letting players choose who they want to be.
 
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lupex
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Re: Class Speculation

Fri 27 Oct 2017, 15:55

I really like this approach, it will make things extremely flexible when it comes to developing character concepts.
 
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lupex
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Re: Class Speculation

Fri 27 Oct 2017, 15:58

An Orc warrior-poet sounds awesome
I personally see this as in tune with the setting and story, the orcs dreaming of their proud future while lamenting the past and cursing others. This said, I can't promise this being a playable option.
”Howler?”
That's a shame as the back story of the endlaved Orcs being gifted by the God to the elves and dwarfs has really inspired one of my players as he now wants to take the role of an Orc that may work towards a full uprising against the slave masters, if they still exist once the blood must has gone.
 
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Brior
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Re: Class Speculation

Fri 27 Oct 2017, 16:01

That's a shame as the back story of the endlaved Orcs being gifted by the God to the elves and dwarfs has really inspired one of my players as he now wants to take the role of an Orc that may work towards a full uprising against the slave masters, if they still exist once the blood must has gone.
This is music (or howlings) to my ears. I wouldn't give up hope about playing orcs. It's just not my decision to make.
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