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9littlebees
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Re: Skills Opinions!

Thu 28 Sep 2017, 00:49

Melee combat = Fighting
Ranged combat = Marksmanship 
Crafting = Artisan
Poetry = Artistic 
Judge character = Insight 
Marksmanship is a great one, my favourite one so far!  I also like Insight, if they decide to keep "Judge character" as a skill.
 
Harper
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Re: Skills Opinions!

Thu 28 Sep 2017, 14:16

I like the idea of the attributes being

Vitality
Grace
Reason
Presence

With each of those primary attributes breaking down in to two related sub attributes,
Being...

Vitality 
Strength and Endurance

Grace
Dexterity and Agility

Reason
Intelligence and Wisdom

Presence
Will and Charm

Each sub attribute cost half as much as the full attribute, 
This option allows for a higher definition of the characters abilities, 

You can only raise one sub attribute per main attribute, 
It can only be higher than the main attribute,

...

I'm Just sharing my ideas here, what do you think?
Hmmm, not sure it's really adding anything for the added complexity.  Also, really not a fan of the term "Grace" in a dark fantasy game - it brings too much religious baggage.
I've actually done a lot of fiddling with attributes in my own fantasy hack and in the end I also decided to expand on attributes, but in a very different direction to what you've suggested.
In a nutshell, I kept the 4 main Year Zero attributes of Strength, Dexterity, Wits and Empathy.  Then I created 2 derived attributes of Toughness (STR + DEX) and Willpower (WIT + EMP).  These two derived attributes are used for resistance or endurance type rolls (not used with a skill) and double up by also being the wound and sanity thresholds.
This gives a very similar spread of attributes to WFRP (which is the flavour of fantasy I was going for), whilst keeping Attribute + Skill rolls fairly contained to only 4 attributes.
It also meant I could ditch Endure as a skill, since any Endurance rolls would use either straight Toughness or Willpower rolls - this seems more fitting in my head, as your physical and mental resilience are much more attribute-like (built up slowly over your lifetime) rather than skill-like (something you can learn more easily).
It adds very little complexity, it's just an option to use or not, you can use the attributes as is (which would show a broader general area of attribute) or telescope in for more refined detail, 
human psychology runs on association, to me grace is just a shortened form of graceful, and it sounds more fantasy than the original version which was "Coordination"
Toughness would be better served with STR + Will, 
 
Harper
Posts: 143
Joined: Mon 11 Sep 2017, 20:17

Re: Skills Opinions!

Thu 28 Sep 2017, 14:18

Melee combat = Fighting
Ranged combat = Marksmanship 
Crafting = Artisan
Poetry = Artistic 
Judge character = Insight 
Marksmanship is a great one, my favourite one so far!  I also like Insight, if they decide to keep "Judge character" as a skill.
Cheers :)
 
silverfoxdmt73
Posts: 182
Joined: Thu 24 Aug 2017, 12:53

Re: Skills Opinions!

Thu 28 Sep 2017, 14:23

Personally, I'd like to see around 20-24 skills, with a similar amount for each linked attribute. If you have too many skills, players tend to end up to generalized or far too narrowly focused.

I'd also like to see the option to increase Attributes via XP - though I would make this very expensive.
 
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Peter
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Re: Skills Opinions!

Thu 28 Sep 2017, 15:01

Personally, I'd like to see around 20-24 skills, with a similar amount for each linked attribute. If you have too many skills, players tend to end up to generalized or far too narrowly focused.

I'd also like to see the option to increase Attributes via XP - though I would make this very expensive.
The standard in Fria Ligan games has been 3 skills per attribute i.e. 12 (!) Hence my suggestion above
Check out my BoL heroic migration period hack - Barbarians of the Dark Ages
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King_Kull
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Re: Skills Opinions!

Thu 28 Sep 2017, 15:24

Good to see that Insight has fans - have suggested it this week in the comments ;)
Can’t explain why this skill wasn’t on my final list in the comments...
Don’t be a friend of to many skills. Hope that it will be around sixteen (15 + Animal Handling). That’s a good number of skills.
Fighting along with Marksmanship sounds good - but perhaps there will be Talents and Marksmanship is often a name for a talent of ranged combat.
And not a friend of expanding the Attributes.
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Harper
Posts: 143
Joined: Mon 11 Sep 2017, 20:17

Re: Skills Opinions!

Fri 29 Sep 2017, 00:55

Good to see that Insight has fans - have suggested it this week in the comments ;)
Can’t explain why this skill wasn’t on my final list in the comments...
Don’t be a friend of to many skills. Hope that it will be around sixteen (15 + Animal Handling). That’s a good number of skills.
Fighting along with Marksmanship sounds good - but perhaps there will be Talents and Marksmanship is often a name for a talent of ranged combat.
And not a friend of expanding the Attributes.
Insight just makes sense,
As for skills, I'd like to see skill like the attributes generally broad, but with the option to focus,
Example: Fighting 1 [Axes 3], or Marksmanship 2 [Spear 3] 

I would let the players have whatever they wanted as long as it related to a listed skill, they could make up any focused specialisation they liked, a simple way to customise their characters without breaking the system, what you gain in narrow function you loose in broad function, it's inherently balanced, 

Best part is you can have the the broad and general attributes and skills for fast play and npc's and the detailed focus for the players, or important npc,
It's optional either way, it doesn't disrupt the system,
 
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Fenhorn
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Re: Skills Opinions!

Fri 29 Sep 2017, 01:10

As for skills, I'd like to see skill like the attributes generally broad, but with the option to focus,
Example: Fighting 1 [Axes 3], or Marksmanship 2 [Spear 3] 

I would let the players have whatever they wanted as long as it related to a listed skill, they could make up any focused specialisation they liked, a simple way to customise their characters without breaking the system, what you gain in narrow function you loose in broad function, 
In MYZ some talents give bonus to skills when using the skill in a more narrow way. I don't think they would skip that, probably expand it instead.
“Thanks for noticin' me.” - Eeyore
 
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negromaestro
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Re: Skills Opinions!

Fri 29 Sep 2017, 01:14

One thing we should remember, is that not everyone will come to this game with English as the first language. In fact this game has Swedish origins. 

So when we pick attributes, it is not just how efficient they maybe for English Speakers (Vitality, Grace, Reason, Presence is a great list), but how easy they are to translate to other languages. 

Some words like STRENGTH, AGILITY, INTELLIGENCE and EMOTION translate much better than others across multiple languages. 

So Fria Ligan should focus on that, and we, the English speakers, should accept that the words that translate more readily to other languages should be our goal, not perfect English words only. 
 
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9littlebees
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Posts: 532
Joined: Sat 18 Feb 2017, 14:22
Location: Rural Germany
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Re: Skills Opinions!

Fri 29 Sep 2017, 01:17

As for skills, I'd like to see skill like the attributes generally broad, but with the option to focus,
Example: Fighting 1 [Axes 3], or Marksmanship 2 [Spear 3] 

I would let the players have whatever they wanted as long as it related to a listed skill, they could make up any focused specialisation they liked, a simple way to customise their characters without breaking the system, what you gain in narrow function you loose in broad function, it's inherently balanced, 

Best part is you can have the the broad and general attributes and skills for fast play and npc's and the detailed focus for the players, or important npc,
It's optional either way, it doesn't disrupt the system,
No need to change the system so drastically, when that's exactly how Talents are intended to work - give more specialised bonuses to the broader skills.

You want to specialise in Axes, so you can get an extra die when using one? Take a weapon specialisation Talent.

You want to specialise in rural prowling, take the relevant Talent giving a bonus to Stealth when in the countryside, rather than Stealth 2 (Rural 3).
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