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9littlebees
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Skills Opinions!

Wed 27 Sep 2017, 13:53

So I thought this might be a good place to continue the discussion on Skills.  For those new to the discussion, Fria Ligan posted a screenshot of the FL Character Sheet (see bottom of this post for the image), and gave this rough translation of the Attributes and Skills, stating that they are rough translations and subject to change:


A quick and dirty translation of attributes and skills:
ATTRIBUTES: 
Strength 
Agility 
Intelligence 
Charisma

SKILLS: 
Feat of Strength 
Endurance 
Melee Combat 
Crafting 
Stealth 
Manual Dexterity 
Acrobatics 
Ranged Combat 
Scouting 
Knowledge 
Survival 
Judge of Character 
Persuation 
Bluffing 
Poetry 
First Aid

Please note that skill names - and the character sheet as a whole - it not final.


What are your thoughts on these skills?  Weigh in below!
Image
Last edited by 9littlebees on Wed 27 Sep 2017, 14:35, edited 1 time in total.
 
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9littlebees
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Re: Skills Opinions!

Wed 27 Sep 2017, 14:04

Here's my opinion on the subject, with the following rough rules governing my choices:
  1. Attributes and Skill names wherever possible should keep the same name as in Mutant Year Zero.
  2. Wherever possible, skill names should be kept to a single word, for both design and aethetic purposes.  "Animal Handling" breaks this, but I can't think of a single word skill for this, other than "Animals", which doesn't feel right.
  3. Skill names should be broadened where possible, so that the small number of skills (16) can be used for more actions - specific cases can be handled by talents.
So without further ado, here is my personal view:

STRENGTH
Endurance
Force
Melee
Survival

AGILITY (I actually prefer DEXTERITY, but this would break my bullet 1 above)
Balance (Acrobatics is too narrow a focus, I feel)
Ballistics (yes, it's a bit contemporary, but as a WFRP fan, with the "Ballistic Skill" attribute, I like this best)
Finesse
Stealth

WITS 
Crafting 
Healing
Lore (not 100% happy with this, but it would cover Knowledge and Education)
Observation (I would really like to see an Investigation skill, not sure how to squeeze it in here)

EMPATHY 
Animal Handling (used for calming, training, but especially riding animals)
Command (surely an essential skill to have in a game that has Strongholds and minions under our control?)
Manipulation (covering charm, deceit, basically changing someone's mind) 
Performance (covering poetry, song, acting, carousing, etc)
 
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Lejonel
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Re: Skills Opinions!

Wed 27 Sep 2017, 15:12

Isn't "husbandry" the same as animal handling? Well, not exactly the same but might it not do?
 
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Peter
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Re: Skills Opinions!

Wed 27 Sep 2017, 15:28

I wouldn't feel too bound to MY0. It's a different game, and skills and abilities vary even within the Mutant family of products. Here are some of my thoughts

STRENGTH                                                STYRKA
Endurance                                                  Uthållighet
Feat of Strength                                         Styrkeprov
Close Combat                                             Närkamp

AGILITY                                                      SMIDIGHET
Movement (climbing, jumping, acrobatics)   Rörlighet
Ranged Combat                                          Skytte
Stealth (includes sleight of hand)                Smyga

CUNNING                                                   LIST                                         
Healing                                                        Läkekonst
Learning                                                      Utbildning
Craft                                                            Hantverk

WILL                                                           PSYKE
Speech (bluffing, convincing)                      Vältalighet  
Performance (recital, sing and dance etc)  Framförande
Perception                                                  Iakttagelseförmåga

EDIT: had a stab at translating back into Swedish as well
Last edited by Peter on Wed 27 Sep 2017, 16:54, edited 2 times in total.
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King_Kull
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Re: Skills Opinions!

Wed 27 Sep 2017, 15:44

My list of skills that I like:

SKILLS
Feat of Strength = Might
Endurance
Melee Combat
Survival
Stealth
Manual Dexterity = Sleight of Hand
Acrobatics
Ranged Combat
Crafting = Tradecraft
Scouting = Awareness
Knowledge = Lore
First Aid = Healing
Persuation = Manipulation (covering charm, deceit, basically changing someone's mind. Intimidation could be STRENGTH + Manipulation)
Bluffing = change to Leadership
Poetry = Performance
*NEW = Animal Handling (also used for Riding)

And I don’t think that the Skills shouldn’t be to bound to MY0, too. They have produced Coriolis and TftL and this are very different games. This is a fantasy game and it should have skills that are appropriate to the game and it’s setting. Therefore a skill can be composed of a single or more words.
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Tomas
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Re: Skills Opinions!

Wed 27 Sep 2017, 16:42

Nice ideas, thanks all!
Fria Ligan
 
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9littlebees
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Re: Skills Opinions!

Wed 27 Sep 2017, 16:45

Isn't "husbandry" the same as animal handling? Well, not exactly the same but might it not do?
Yeah, that one did cross my mind earlier, but I ruled it out at first because it doesn't necessarily imply taming wild animals.  But maybe it is the best word for it, if we were to stick to one word.
Actually, the more I think about it, the more I like it!
 
Harper
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Re: Skills Opinions!

Wed 27 Sep 2017, 17:52

I like the idea of the attributes being

Vitality
Grace
Reason
Presence

With each of those primary attributes breaking down in to two related sub attributes,
Being...

Vitality 
Strength and Endurance

Grace
Dexterity and Agility

Reason
Intelligence and Wisdom

Presence
Will and Charm

Each sub attribute cost half as much as the full attribute, 
This option allows for a higher definition of the characters abilities, 

You can only raise one sub attribute per main attribute, 
It can only be higher than the main attribute,

So for example it would look like this ( 12 point)

Vitality 3 [Strength 4]
Grace 2 [Dexterity 3]
Reason 3
Presence 2 [Charm 4]


I'm Just sharing my ideas here, what do you think?


Btw, I can't wait to buy this game,
I'm a fan of this company, (got Coriolis and Loop at the moment, plan to buy everything)
And I am looking forward to this, guessing at the earliest it's going to be next year? (tooo long lol)

Btw, edit to make the stats feel more fantasy
Last edited by Harper on Wed 27 Sep 2017, 18:05, edited 1 time in total.
 
Harper
Posts: 143
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Re: Skills Opinions!

Wed 27 Sep 2017, 18:00

My list of skills that I like:

SKILLS
Feat of Strength = Might
Endurance
Melee Combat
Survival  
Stealth
Manual Dexterity = Sleight of Hand
Acrobatics
Ranged Combat
Crafting = Tradecraft
Scouting = Awareness
Knowledge = Lore
First Aid = Healing
Persuation = Manipulation (covering charm, deceit, basically changing someone's mind. Intimidation could be STRENGTH + Manipulation)
Bluffing = change to Leadership
Poetry = Performance
*NEW = Animal Handling (also used for Riding)

And I don’t think that the Skills shouldn’t be to bound to MY0, too. They have produced Coriolis and TftL and this are very different games. This is a fantasy game and it should have skills that are appropriate to the game and it’s setting. Therefore a skill can be composed of a single or more words.
Melee combat = Fighting
Ranged combat = Marksmanship 
Crafting = Artisan
Poetry = Artistic 
Judge character = Insight 
 
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9littlebees
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Re: Skills Opinions!

Thu 28 Sep 2017, 00:44

I like the idea of the attributes being

Vitality
Grace
Reason
Presence

With each of those primary attributes breaking down in to two related sub attributes,
Being...

Vitality 
Strength and Endurance

Grace
Dexterity and Agility

Reason
Intelligence and Wisdom

Presence
Will and Charm

Each sub attribute cost half as much as the full attribute, 
This option allows for a higher definition of the characters abilities, 

You can only raise one sub attribute per main attribute, 
It can only be higher than the main attribute,

...

I'm Just sharing my ideas here, what do you think?
Hmmm, not sure it's really adding anything for the added complexity.  Also, really not a fan of the term "Grace" in a dark fantasy game - it brings too much religious baggage.
I've actually done a lot of fiddling with attributes in my own fantasy hack and in the end I also decided to expand on attributes, but in a very different direction to what you've suggested.
In a nutshell, I kept the 4 main Year Zero attributes of Strength, Dexterity, Wits and Empathy.  Then I created 2 derived attributes of Toughness (STR + DEX) and Willpower (WIT + EMP).  These two derived attributes are used for resistance or endurance type rolls (not used with a skill) and double up by also being the wound and sanity thresholds.
This gives a very similar spread of attributes to WFRP (which is the flavour of fantasy I was going for), whilst keeping Attribute + Skill rolls fairly contained to only 4 attributes.
It also meant I could ditch Endure as a skill, since any Endurance rolls would use either straight Toughness or Willpower rolls - this seems more fitting in my head, as your physical and mental resilience are much more attribute-like (built up slowly over your lifetime) rather than skill-like (something you can learn more easily).
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