lgw
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Clarification for Path of the Warcry (Minstrel)

Wed 10 Jul 2019, 18:52

Hello,

We were not sure how we should interpret the duration of the Minstrel's Path of the Warcry rank 1 talent:
  1. The Minstel spends X WP and the bonus lasts till the end of the current round.
  2. The Minstel spends X WP and the bonus lasts until the next time it is the Minstrel's turn.
  3. The Minstel spends X WP and the bonus lasts as long as the Minstrel keeps spending a slow action during his turn to maintain the song.
We were also not sure whether the bonus was capped by the maximum of +3 for external help or could theoretically got up to +10, if the Minstrel would spend 10 WP at once.

Thank you.
 
Ayathor
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Re: Clarification for Path of the Warcry (Minstrel)

Wed 10 Jul 2019, 19:03

I take that the power last until it is the next turn of the Minstrel, aka a round. So if the the Minstrel acts first, he spends up to 10 WP to give +10 (+11 if psychic power, half-elf) bonus until he acts again in the next round, and the power stops at his turn (if it lasted a full fight it would be too over powered).

The only way it could last more/less is if his initiative gets modified in the battle (e.g. feint).

Usually, if there are any restrictions like capping at +3, the rules specify it. I know it could sound way too powerful but any class spending 10 WP at once is very strong (+10 damage, for example).

I hope that helps
 
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faun
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Re: Clarification for Path of the Warcry (Minstrel)

Wed 10 Jul 2019, 20:15

My interpretation was that it is until the minstrel acts again, so if he has to dodge or move it ends, the buff effects can continue if he spends more WP points to keep it active.
Because of the way initiative works a feint action would cause the music to stop because there was an active action on the minstrel at arms length. 
if the minstrel was short or closer range and went on 1 then all characters would get the benefit for that round, at the top of the next round the pcs can trade initiative among themselves pg.84, so if the minstrel were then traded a 10 the combatants would be under the effect until his action on 10.

I don't know exactly how I'd rule when the minstrel is taking damage from say arrows or other weapons, I'd probably use a performance roll with more successes needed than the damage to see if this breaks the effect of the music.
 
Tanarii
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Re: Clarification for Path of the Warcry (Minstrel)

Thu 11 Jul 2019, 05:07

You can exchange initiative among players at the start of every round.  And the next round is a new round. 

Lacking input from a developer, I'm of the opinion it means during the same round, or until you act again.  If you use that interpretation, if you're going to war cry, it behooves you to switch with other players to act first, and it's better to use a fast action first to move somewhere safe instead of saving your action to parry or dodge.
 
myrsloken
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Re: Clarification for Path of the Warcry (Minstrel)

Sat 13 Jul 2019, 16:36

The Swedish rules support your second alternative. My translation: "during the coming round, until it is your turn again". And since the rules were written first in Swedish I'm taking it as the intended rules. Now, a better way to write this would have been "for the remainder of this round, and until your turn the next round". There are no mentions of any way to prolong the duration, so it is safe to assume that you have to spend another long action and more WP (essentially just casting it again) if you want to have it last another round.

I do agree that a feint or swapped initiative seems to be able to prolong the effects by moving you later in the initiative or shortening it by moving you forward in the initiative. But I dislike this. It is a warcry after all, and not a prolonged hymn. The effects should be in the form of lingering inspiration (or fear in rank 2) and I would house-rule them to end on the next round at the initiative you had when you cried.

I disagree with Fauns interpretation that reacting to an attack (or even simply being the target of a feint) would stop the effects. The talent states that it last until your next turn, and making a reaction is not the same as taking your turn.

I do think it's a really cool idea to let the cry continue somehow and having to power through incoming attacks would make for some really cool fighting bard gameplay. But I think it is important to separate the discussions of what the actual rules say from discussion on cool house-rules, otherwise the discussion quickly devolves into nonsense.
 
Tanarii
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Re: Clarification for Path of the Warcry (Minstrel)

Sat 13 Jul 2019, 21:34

The English version says act again, not your next turn. If that's not the intent it's a poor translation.
 
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Fenhorn
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Re: Clarification for Path of the Warcry (Minstrel)

Sat 13 Jul 2019, 23:29

Warcry Rank 1 and 2 lasts until the minstrel's next turn (when he can make another action), whenever that happens (he might have changed initiative, but that doesn't matter).

Warcry Rank 1 and 2 has the same text for duration in the Swedish book and the English Rank 2 text "<> until it's your turn to act again in the next round" is a much better translation.
“I’d say thistles, but nobody listens to me, anyway.” - Eeyore
 
Tanarii
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Re: Clarification for Path of the Warcry (Minstrel)

Sun 14 Jul 2019, 03:48

Even that's not a fantastic translation, since you can act long before your next turn.  The word act should be left out.  But as written they say two totally different things.

Also, it very much matters that your initiative might have changed, since players can, at will, have the minstrel take the lowest of all their initiatives to draw out the effect.  And highest on the turn they plan to start using it.  They can get two rounds of use out of the talent Rank 1 every time, and even form Rank 2 if their initiative spread brackets the enemy's.
 
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faun
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Re: Clarification for Path of the Warcry (Minstrel)

Sun 14 Jul 2019, 03:51

 They can get two rounds of use out of the talent Rank 1 every time, and even form Rank 2 if their initiative spread brackets the enemy's.
Having a minstrel in the group is a great way to buff. They become a needed party member and it seems appropriate.
 
Tanarii
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Re: Clarification for Path of the Warcry (Minstrel)

Sun 14 Jul 2019, 03:54

 They can get two rounds of use out of the talent Rank 1 every time, and even form Rank 2 if their initiative spread brackets the enemy's.
Having a minstrel in the group is a great way to buff. They become a needed party member and it seems appropriate.
Appropriate ... or clear and obvious exploit?  Tomayto, Tomahto.
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