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hperantunes
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When do actions refresh in a combat?

Wed 15 May 2019, 02:39

I was working on the assumption that during combat, your fast and slow actions refresh on your character's own initiative, but then a problem has been brought to my attention. Imagine the following scenario, it's the first round of a combat: 

  • Alice is the last combatant in initiative order, and gets attacked twice before her turn. 
  • She decides to parry twice, spending both her fast and slow actions.
  • Finally, her turn arrives and she refreshes both her fast and slow actions.
  • That has just effectively granted her character 4 actions in the very first round of combat, because she's decided to parry attacks before her first turn.

That does not sound right, and I couldn't find a passage in the Player's Handbook that says at what point exactly a character's actions refresh, during a combat.

To counter that issue, I've started refreshing actions at the beginning of each round - but I'm not sure if that's the approach intended by the rules. Have I missed the description of this particular mechanic in the Player's Handbook?
 
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Fenhorn
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Re: When do actions refresh in a combat?

Wed 15 May 2019, 05:53

I was working on the assumption that during combat, your fast and slow actions refresh on your character's own initiative, but then a problem has been brought to my attention. Imagine the following scenario, it's the first round of a combat: 

  • Alice is the last combatant in initiative order, and gets attacked twice before her turn. 
  • She decides to parry twice, spending both her fast and slow actions.
  • Finally, her turn arrives and she refreshes both her fast and slow actions.
  • That has just effectively granted her character 4 actions in the very first round of combat, because she's decided to parry attacks before her first turn.

That does not sound right, and I couldn't find a passage in the Player's Handbook that says at what point exactly a character's actions refresh, during a combat.

To counter that issue, I've started refreshing actions at the beginning of each round - but I'm not sure if that's the approach intended by the rules. Have I missed the description of this particular mechanic in the Player's Handbook?
You right, now when I think about it, the most logical would be that all actions are refreshed at the start of a round before anyone takes any initiative.
“I’d say thistles, but nobody listens to me, anyway.” - Eeyore
 
myrsloken
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Re: When do actions refresh in a combat?

Wed 15 May 2019, 09:33

At a first reading I also assumed that actions refresh at your own turn, but as you say, this is complicated. If they refresh at the start then you can act 4 times in the first round and after that you have to anticipate future attacks and "save" actions. If they refresh at the end of your turn you can "borrow" actions from your next turn, but you'd feel forced to consume all your actions every turn as they would simply be wasted at the end of your turn if you don't use them. Of the two I prefer the latter. But I think it's pretty clear that the rules instead intend all actions for everyone to reset at the beginning of each round. The rules for reactive actions spell this out pretty clearly, and the lack of other explicit instructions on when actions would refresh also support this.
 
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Tiretrack
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Re: When do actions refresh in a combat?

Thu 13 Jun 2019, 20:32

So I've tried having all actions reset at the beginning of the round. The problem that I run into is the combatant with the worst initiative can feint the combatant with the best initiative, still use his Slow action , and then have both actions immediately reset. This feels too powerful for a fast action that requires no skill roll. It might be better if Feint required a Manipulate vs Insight roll.
Instead, I'm going to try having combatants start with no actions until their first turn. This would solve the problem of using both actions before your first turn to dodge/parry and ending up with four actions. I'll let you know how that goes though.
 
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Fenhorn
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Re: When do actions refresh in a combat?

Thu 13 Jun 2019, 20:59

So I've tried having all actions reset at the beginning of the round. The problem that I run into is the combatant with the worst initiative can feint the combatant with the best initiative, still use his Slow action , and then have both actions immediately reset. This feels too powerful for a fast action that requires no skill roll. It might be better if Feint required a Manipulate vs Insight roll.
Instead, I'm going to try having combatants start with no actions until their first turn. This would solve the problem of using both actions before your first turn to dodge/parry and ending up with four actions. I'll let you know how that goes though.
And (again) the combatant with the highest init card (i.e. worst) will have to use one of his actions to feint. Some example:

Turn 1: A (init 1) - Attacks (slow)
          : B (init 9) - Parries (reactive fast) 
          : A - Saves his fast actions just in case B will attack.
          : B - Feints (fast)
A wastes his second actions but on the other hand he was not attacked so...

Turn 2: B (init 1) - Attacks (slow)
          : A  (init 9) - Parries (reactive fast)
          : B - Saves his fast action just in case A will attack
          : A - Feints (fast)
Nothing has changed. this is an example of a totally pointless feint. Feint is best used as part of a momentum.

Turn 1: A (init 1) - Attacks (slow)
          : B - Don't uses his actions, he saves them to be used on his own turn.
          : A - Knows that B will have both of his actions left on his turn. He could save his second (fast) action or use it to shove his opponent or disarm him. Lets save it.
          : B (init 9) - Attacks (slow)
          : A - Parries (reactive fast).
          : B - Feint (fast).
Here B has gambled a little by not parrying. He gained a better init by doing so.

Turn 2 : B (init 1) - Attacks (slow)
           : A (init 9) - Parries (reactive fast).
           : B - Saves his fast action just in case A will attack
           : A - He could feint or attack here.
There is nothing to be gain in these example.

Talents, number of allies can change this but that is what I call momentum. If you can parry for free for example, you will have a free action when it is your turn and you can feint without sacrificing an action. Not so strange, you are better than him (you have one more action than him). But then you have the better init and the only ones that can feint are your opponents. If you feint because of that you have more people on your side or you have combat oriented talents and he did not, then you should have the advantage. My examples was with a duel without talents, just to show that it is not that useful.
“I’d say thistles, but nobody listens to me, anyway.” - Eeyore
 
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Tiretrack
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Re: When do actions refresh in a combat?

Fri 14 Jun 2019, 07:26

Okay, I see what you mean! Thanks for the thorough explanation.
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