Addramyr
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Stronghold rules hack (simpler)

Tue 19 Feb 2019, 17:58

Hi!

I'm working on alternate rules for simplifying the Stronghold management in FL.
The goal is to reduce bookkeeping and speed up the Stronghold mini-game.

This is WIP, so I need constructive feedbacks. Feel free to comment!

Instead of tracking units of resources, you track resource dice, much like the character's resources (FOOD, WATER, TORCH and AMMO).
The resource die represents supply more than stockpile, meaning even if you have d12 STONES, you might not have the equivalent of hundreds of stones on hand, but you probably have a steady supply (the equivalent of about 50 stones produced per day).

Each building project has a requirement of a certain resource die.
For example, the Bakery requires d12 Stone and d6 Wood.

When you want to build something and have the required resources, you roll each of the resource die once.
On a 1-2, you lower the resource die by 1 type and roll on a random table. This table has a list of events such as "A monster has invaded one of the resource generation building. No one can work and extract resources there until it is dealt with." or "Workers go on a strike. They want a salary raise, that their work hours are reduced or some other kind of compensation before they will resume their work."
When your resource die is reduced as a result of a roll of 1-2, it will stay at this amount until you fix the issue generated by the random roll (ex. track the bandits who stole your shipment and bring back the stolen resources) or increase the die type by 1 step by another mean.

When you lower a d6 by 1 step, you are out of this resource.

Resource generating buildings allow you to "set" the resource die of the resource type it produces based on how many workers work there everyday. For each 3 workers you hire to work at this building, you increase its resource die by 1 step. So if you have 6 miners, your Iron resource die is d8. (3 = d6, 6 = d8, 9 = d10, 12 = d12)

Buildings that "transforms" one type of resource for another are simplified in such a way : Each day you can lower the needed resource by 1 step to increase the produced resource by 1 step.
For example, the Tailor Shop would allow you to lower the WOOL die by 1 step and increase the CLOTH die by 1 step.

You can gain "advantage or disadvantage" to a resource roll by bringing back/losing 10 units of a resource type. The increase lasts for 1 roll (and can be indicated with a * or a # next to the die type).
For example, if you bring back a shipment of 10 units of iron from an expedition to your stronghold, you mark a * next to the die type. Next time you roll this resource die, you roll 2 dice and take the best.

So summary:

When you want to build something, roll each required resource die.
On a 1-2, reduce the die 1 step and roll on random event table.
On a 3+, construction starts and will finish in the indicated time.

Increase a resource type buy building resource producing constructions (ex. Mine) and assigning workers to it.
Temporarily increase/decrease a resource die roll by bringing back/losing 10 units worth of a resource.
 
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9littlebees
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Re: Stronghold rules hack (simpler)

Tue 19 Feb 2019, 18:17

While this reduces the need to count resources, it doesn't solve the issue of having a huge list of resources to manage. 

I actually plan on developing an optional alternative to the Stronghold rules in Nordsaga (my upcoming FBL setting hack), and what I plan to do is port over a lot of the Ark mechanics from MYZ.

Each Function / Project would need previous Functions / Projects to build. So for example you would need to build a mine before you could start building a smithy. In addition, I'm trying to find a way to port the Development Levels from MYZ over to a fantasy setting (Food Supply, Culture, Technology, Warfare) , so that these could become additional prerequisites for the more advanced Functions / Projects.

The end result would be a Stronghold system with no resources to manage, unless you see Development Levels as resources, but then there would only be a handful.

Apologies that this is a bit vague, I've not yet started developing this aspect of the game yet.
 
Addramyr
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Re: Stronghold rules hack (simpler)

Tue 19 Feb 2019, 18:56

Yeah, this was my original idea actually but I felt like it might stray too far from RAW?

Didn't play MYZ, what's the Development Levels you're talking about?
 
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9littlebees
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Re: Stronghold rules hack (simpler)

Tue 19 Feb 2019, 19:44

Well, I've listed the four Development Levels in MYZ. Each of them has a number assigned to it, between 0 and 39 (theoretically higher). You assign 12 points across the 4 at the start of the game, and as play progresses, they increase either with artifacts which you donate to the Ark, or as you build Projects (Functions). So for example finding a Bicycle out in the Zone can give increase the Technology Level in your Ark by +D6. Likewise, building a Statue as a Project in the Ark increases the Culture Level in your Ark by +D6.

Anyway, the Development Levels are tiered, so that they affect your Ark in different ways, depending at what value you have for each. Here's an example of the Technology Tier:

TECHNOLOGY: The most important use of the Technology DEV rating is to help the People to understand how artifacts are used.
  • 0-9: Apart from Gearheads, none of the People really understand technology at all. What little the Elder has taught them has largely been forgotten. Most artifacts are incomprehensible riddles.
  • 10-19: The People have achieved a basic technical knowledge by collecting artifacts from the Zone and studying them. Simple constructions, such a mill or a distillery, can be built.
  • 20-29: The People master the basics of mechanical construction, and have most likely built a workshop. They can build new roads in the Zone and can create more advanced machines, such as a printing press.
  • 30-39: The People are on the brink of a technological revolution, and can recreate some of the miracles of the Old Age: the steam engine, the heliograph, electric lights and breech-loaded guns.
Here's an example of an advanced, late game Project (Function) that requires a high Technology to build:

ELECTRIC LIGHTS: Illuminates the Ark like in the Old Age, and turns it into a beacon seen for miles at night.
  • DEV Requirement: Technology 40
  • Other Requirements: Workshop, Generator
  • Skills: Comprehend
  • Work Points: 2x number of PCs (dictates how long it takes to build)
  • DEV Bonus: Technology +2D6
And here's an example of a starting campaign Project that has no prerequisites:

ZONE WRESTLING: A metal cage where the strongest mutants fight each other for bullets and glory. Less physically inclined mutants bet on the outcome. No weapons are allowed in the cage, but mutations are considered fair play.
  • DEV Requirement: None
  • Skills: Fight or Manipulate
  • Work Points: 1x number of PCs
  • DEV Bonus: Warfare +D6
 
Addramyr
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Re: Stronghold rules hack (simpler)

Tue 19 Feb 2019, 22:04

Just realized you're one of the guy from Blood & Mud :)
 
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9littlebees
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Re: Stronghold rules hack (simpler)

Wed 20 Feb 2019, 09:29

Just realized you're one of the guy from Blood & Mud :)
Yep!
 
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mafusael
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Re: Stronghold rules hack (simpler)

Wed 20 Feb 2019, 16:28

Hi!

I'm working on alternate rules for simplifying the Stronghold management in FL.
The goal is to reduce bookkeeping and speed up the Stronghold mini-game.

This is WIP, so I need constructive feedbacks. Feel free to comment!
Hello!
Such a coincidence! I have been making new rules for the STRONGHOLD for two days already. I really like your rules and I also want to apply a similar RESOURCE mechanic. But I don’t like that you tear off the PC from their adventure every time the resource is over - it can be a pain in the ass :)

I also do not see here as in the original rules any reason to have stronghold at all.

I'm trying to use the mechanics of resources and the accumulation of GOLD, and also give more donuses than the usual rules. In addition, my STRONGHOLD will grow in hexes to show the growth of the whole city around it. Each hex can be built into 6 sectors, and each function has 3 levels. New VILLAGERS will come to the STRONGHOLD every week - it depends on the REPITATION roll of the whole group for a week - every success gives the D6 LABORER - they can be tured to GUARD or CRAFTSMEN

Here is a screenshot of my work. Maybe we can come up with something together?
3 LABORER means that you need to roll that resourse 3 times. I'm planing to "zip" all resourse to 6 in number to keep them track only.
It would be cool for each player be responsible only for one resource of STRONGHOLD. Random event will be only if you have no dice to roll = no resourse any more (they restore next week).

p.s. I removed the cycles: grain in flour, flour in bread at all
Image
Custom GM Screen and Character Sheet for FbL
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1NTsVe ... YaBTUd9Rau
 
Addramyr
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Re: Stronghold rules hack (simpler)

Wed 20 Feb 2019, 18:30

I like what I'm seeing!

Makes total sense to skip conversion directly to FOOD.
It brings down resources to only : FOOD, WOOD, IRON, STONE, which seems like a good number.
How do you handle crafting materials (leather, cloth)?

I'm not sure I get the prices in materials though?
For ex. Marketplace costs 1 STONE.
Quarry generates d6 STONE. That is, per day?
So, you basically use the same mechanic as in RAW, albeit with lower numbers, right?
It might be confusing because I think people will have the reflex to thing d6 STONE is the equivalent of the PC's resources mechanic.

For the EXPANSES, I dunno how you set the cost for each "hireling", but you certainly could say that each guard costs, say, 1 silver per day. Each laborer is 1 copper. etc.
By keeping the costs a single unit, it removes the need to calculate the cost for each of them (ex. I got 16 laborer, at 3 copper per day each, times 8 days... urk, feels like taxes).

I'm not a fan of the fact MATERIAL and EXPANSES most of the time having the same info. I think they could be merged somehow for lowering quantity of data.

Good point on the gold part. The point of the whole stronghold mini-game is to offer PCs a way to spend their hard earned gold.
In the RAW, the only expenses you have is in salaries. Nothing costs gold to build (unless you actually buy the materials).
I think it's a good way to simplify the resource management to ask for a gold cost instead. Hey, maybe an even simpler version would get away with all resources as only have cost in gold for everything?

One thing that bothers me in RAW is the fact that you need to calculate upkeep in days.
I think all costs should be shown in weeks so that you don't need to calculate things daily.

I don't like the hex idea. A hex is 10 km x 10 km. I can't see a single town in the Raven Lands that spans more than a few km, even including the farmlands. We're not talking metropolises here but small isolated villages or keeps of a few hundreds people at best.

Add me on hangout or MeWe, we can chat and exchange ideas. Possibly co-work on this on Drive :)
I'm Addramyr Palinor on G+ and MeWe
 
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mafusael
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Re: Stronghold rules hack (simpler)

Fri 22 Feb 2019, 03:17

It brings down resources to only : FOOD, WOOD, IRON, STONE, which seems like a good number.
How do you handle crafting materials (leather, cloth)?
Right, I want to use 3-6-9 resources to keep track in whole stronghold mini-game.
I do not think yet about leather, cloth, glass etc. at all because that recourses don’t have exact use.
I'm not sure I get the prices in materials though?
For ex. Marketplace costs 1 STONE.
Quarry generates d6 STONE. That is, per day?
So, you basically use the same mechanic as in RAW, albeit with lower numbers, right?
It might be confusing because I think people will have the reflex to thing d6 STONE is the equivalent of the PC's resources mechanic.
Quarry generates d6 STONE per week (all numbers will be per week - I think it is good period of time for keep focus on adventures). To clarify, it is not distinct quota or exact volume of STONE - I consider it like flow of recourses. A lot of recourses will be gone (for fixing building, making roads, building houses) and this D6 flow determines is it possible for PC to build something. I don’t think that it will be confusing as these recourses used only in STRONGHOLD mini-game.
For the EXPANSES, I dunno how you set the cost for each "hireling", but you certainly could say that each guard costs, say, 1 silver per day. Each laborer is 1 copper. etc. By keeping the costs a single unit, it removes the need to calculate the cost for each of them (ex. I got 16 laborers, at 3 copper per day each, times 8 days... urk, feels like taxes).
I do MORE - you DO NOT need to pay salaries. People live in your STRONHOLD and use its protection and supply. EXPANSES - it is how many times you need to ROLL that resources to BUILD or GET effect of function. Example: DUNGEON I needs 1 WOOD+1 STONE per week. So you need to ROLL once WOOD and STONE and in the end of week there will be your secret place. If you have no that DICE to ROLL - you can't BUILD it. (also you need to spend 3 GOLD to invent this)
I'm not a fan of the fact MATERIAL and EXPANSES most of the time having the same info. I think they could be merged somehow for lowering quantity of data.
I don’t want to merge these as it is different cost to BUILD and to WORK. But to BUILD something you need GOLD as investment in architecture and salaries for people's brains. (there will be rule: each success on CRAFTING roll made by PC will reduce TIME or MATERIAL).
Good point on the gold part. The point of the whole stronghold mini-game is to offer PCs a way to spend their hard earned gold. In the RAW, the only expenses you have is in salaries. Nothing costs gold to build (unless you actually buy the materials). I think it's a good way to simplify the resource management to ask for a gold cost instead. Hey, maybe an even simpler version would get away with all resources as only have cost in gold for everything?
I think my players will be upset to spent so much gold which is not so spread in these lands (powerful thief have 5D6 gold in his treasure), so, I still demand little contribution for investment and also STRONGHOLD itself can get GOLD at MARKETPLACE by selling unused recourses. (rule will be later)
One thing that bothers me in RAW is the fact that you need to calculate upkeep in days. I think all costs should be shown in weeks so that you don't need to calculate things daily.
There will not be UPKEEP cost in my rules - only if you have no laborer enough there will be roll for UPKEEP MISHAPS.
I don't like the hex idea. A hex is 10 km x 10 km. I can't see a single town in the Raven Lands that spans more than a few km, even including the farmlands. We're not talking metropolises here but small isolated villages or keeps of a few hundreds people at best.
There are such cities: Alderstone - 4 hexes, Wailer's Hold - 2 hexes (there can be more underground), Falender - 1 whole hex. I think to create custom STRONGHOLD sheet where players can draw his town in hexes - also it will be important for SEIGE.

THEY MAIN QUESTION: WHERE YOU GET LABORER? It will be reputaton zone. Each week you need to roll all you REPUTETION and each success give you LABORER.
Custom GM Screen and Character Sheet for FbL
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1NTsVe ... YaBTUd9Rau
 
Addramyr
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Joined: Tue 19 Feb 2019, 17:22

Re: Stronghold rules hack (simpler)

Tue 19 Mar 2019, 20:53

Here's my latest version of my Stronghold streamlined hack.

I decided to go another venue and dropped the resources all together.
I figured that since the goal of the stronghold system (according to the books) is to offer PCs way to spend their gold, I'd focus on that.
Now, all buildings have a gold cost which implies cost of materials.

My other goal was to reduce bookkeeping to a minimum.
In that regard, I've streamlined the salaries.
Now, you only have 3 types of hirelings : laborers, guards and master builder.
Salaries are paid every weeks (each 9 days according to my interpretation of the Ravenlands calendar) to reduce bookkeeping.

I've also changed the effect of some of the buildings while trying to keep everything as RAW as possible.
Food producing buildings now supports a certain number of hirelings (you gotta feed 'em!)
I've added a few buildings I though were missing to the lot.

Now, certain buildings require another type of building, creating a sort of interdependence.

I've also dropped tools requirements. It's now included in the building cost and salaries.

So here goes.
It would REALLY need some testing to see if the prices are balanced versus the number of treasures the PC acquire, plus see if some building are not too good for their price or too costly for their benefit.

If you have feedback, I'm all ears!
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