User avatar
Fenhorn
Moderator
Posts: 4428
Joined: Thu 24 Apr 2014, 15:03
Location: Sweden

Re: Movement in Combat

Sun 28 Jan 2018, 11:24

Yes, the Melee Charge talent allows a combined move and attack:
"When you move from NEAR to
ARM’S LENGTH range you can, at the same
time, SLASH, STAB, PUNCH, or SHOVE. This
is called a CHARGE."

So, I guess that addresses part of my issue - I'd still like the option to hold an action though, so I move, then my opponent moves and we both have an action left for a proper fight. I suppose playing through the flow of the fight in my head, one of us will want to parry in that first exchange of blows, I'd prefer it was him rather than me though. Coriolis (and I know I keep citing it, becoming a bit of a Coriolis :ugeek:) allows you to use your defensive action to either parry (reduce opponent successes) or counter-attack and damage your opponent at the same time he hits you. Maybe that could be an option?
That's what the advanced combat rules are for. In advanced combat both you and your enemy selects both your actions (secretly) right away. Using this method you could both choose to attack as your first action or any other combination. Advanced combat normally is only used if you are in close combat (both are typically at Arm's Length distance) but you can use a combination of the normal combat rules and the advanced combat rules.
So if you move so you are near an enemy (fast action) you can save your other action. This other action can normally only be used as a reactive action (if someone attacks you) but let's use advanced combat. On the enemies turn, he engages you (so you are at Arm's Length and both of you can attack). In this case both you and your enemy will choose a tactical card and since you both have a slow action left, that card can be of any kind (slow or fast). This means that both you and your enemy can attack, the enemy can disarm you and you attack or any other combination. I the next turn you both have two actions and you both selects both your tactical cards at the same time.
“Thanks for noticin' me.” - Eeyore
 
User avatar
Fragpuss
Topic Author
Posts: 122
Joined: Sun 23 Jul 2017, 14:02

Re: Movement in Combat

Sun 28 Jan 2018, 11:38

But in your example (if I've read the advanced combat options correctly) - if I move NEAR and hold an action and then the enemy moves to ARM'S LENGTH from me and attacks - he becomes the attacker and if he hits me, then my action is nullified (unless it's a parry / dodge), so it's still not quite what I had in mind.

I'm going to have to round up some players and see how this works in action.
 
User avatar
Fenhorn
Moderator
Posts: 4428
Joined: Thu 24 Apr 2014, 15:03
Location: Sweden

Re: Movement in Combat

Sun 28 Jan 2018, 11:55

But in your example (if I've read the advanced combat options correctly) - if I move NEAR and hold an action and then the enemy moves to ARM'S LENGTH from me and attacks - he becomes the attacker and if he hits me, then my action is nullified (unless it's a parry / dodge), so it's still not quite what I had in mind.

I'm going to have to round up some players and see how this works in action.
In advanced combat, both the attacker and the defender perform their first action (step one) and then both perform their second action (step two). If both selects attack as their step one action, it is the attacker that attack first and then the defender attacks. After that both perform their actions that they selected for step 2. The defenders action is only lost if he takes one or more damage.
Example:
You (Init 2) are at Arm's Length distance from an enemy (Init 4). At Init 2 both you and the enemy selects both your actions (one fast and one slow or two fast) secretly and also in what order they should be played. Let's assume that you selects Hinder and Strike and the enemy selects Defend and Strike. On step one you first perform one of the actions listed on the Hinder card (let's assume Shove). Since the defender has selected Defend as his first action and this is a reactive action he will Defend against your Shove. assuming that the enemy successfully defended against the Shove it is now step 2. In step 2 both of you has selected Attack. You however are the actual attacker will go first. If the enemy doesn't take any damage from the attack (you can miss and/or he can have a good armour) he can now do his Attack. If the enemy takes damage from your attack however, then his attack is lost (according to the Pain rule p88).
“Thanks for noticin' me.” - Eeyore
 
User avatar
Fragpuss
Topic Author
Posts: 122
Joined: Sun 23 Jul 2017, 14:02

Re: Movement in Combat

Sun 28 Jan 2018, 13:54

Yes, but if I've retained an action on my turn (Init 2) and he moves to engage on Init 4 and then we switch to combat, we only select one card each and, according to RAW, I can only select Parry or Dodge, is that right? Even if I can select an offensive action, it's his turn, so he's the attacker even though I have higher initiative and if he damages me, my counter-attack fails?

I'd like to see a counter-attack option built in, so that you can accept the possibility of damage in order for the opportunity to strike a mortal blow yourself. I'm sure we've all seen plenty of fight scenes where that happens.
 
User avatar
Fenhorn
Moderator
Posts: 4428
Joined: Thu 24 Apr 2014, 15:03
Location: Sweden

Re: Movement in Combat

Sun 28 Jan 2018, 14:17

If using the advanced combat, you can select any tactical card you want. The only limit is what type of action that you have left (fast or slow). With the normal combat rules, you can only do reactive actions outside your turn, but in advanced combat, there is "your" or "his" turn. Sure it become tricky if one of the combatants only have one action left. But that only limit how many cards you use, not what type of cards. If you limit the choices in advanced combat, then it wouldn't be so much point of having an advanced system.
“Thanks for noticin' me.” - Eeyore
 
User avatar
9littlebees
Posts: 604
Joined: Sat 18 Feb 2017, 14:22
Contact:

Re: Movement in Combat

Sun 28 Jan 2018, 16:59

If using the advanced combat, you can select any tactical card you want. The only limit is what type of action that you have left (fast or slow). With the normal combat rules, you can only do reactive actions outside your turn, but in advanced combat, there is "your" or "his" turn. Sure it become tricky if one of the combatants only have one action left. But that only limit how many cards you use, not what type of cards. If you limit the choices in advanced combat, then it wouldn't be so much point of having an advanced system.
I think you're both quoting different examples.

Fenhorn is working with the assumption that you're both already engaged in melee combat (ARMS LENGTH), so any action cards can be used.

However, Fragpuss is using an example where the PC is initially at SHORT range, so the PC cannot actually select any combat card for his / her turn that round.

And that's the point. The Advanced Combat rules are designed around two enemies already engaged in Melee combat. Until you close with your enemy, the options are limited.
I make YZE games (https://drivethrurpg.com/browse.php?author=Matt%20Kay) and produce predominately Free League content on my YouTube channel (https://youtube.com/@3skulls)
 
User avatar
Fragpuss
Topic Author
Posts: 122
Joined: Sun 23 Jul 2017, 14:02

Re: Movement in Combat

Sun 28 Jan 2018, 17:08

Yes, Tomas's response earlier in the thread suggested that only Dodge/Parry actions could be 'held' from earlier in the turn, I think that's what's left me confused. Does use of the Advanced Close Combat system override that?

Reading the section over again, it looks like you could achieve a 'counter-attack' using the 'Pain Resistant' talent. I guess I can live with that, although I'd prefer it to be a standard combat option.
 
User avatar
Tomas
Site Admin
Posts: 4896
Joined: Fri 08 Apr 2011, 11:31

Re: Movement in Combat

Sun 28 Jan 2018, 19:30

Not sure I manage to follow all the details of the discussion here, but I'll try to be clear and succinct. :)

If you're at SHORT distance (one zone away) and want to engage someone in close combat, it might be wise to only move to NEAR distance (same zone) in the first round, and then either let your enemy engage you, or move into ARM'S LENGTH and attack in the next turn - unless you have the MELEE CHARGE talent, which lets you move from NEAR to ARM'S LENGTH and attack with just one (slow) action.

Regarding counterstrikes - yes, in the advanced combat system, you can choose to use your action to strike your opponent when he attacks you, instead of parrying - just like in Coriolis, it just works a little differently. In the basic combat system, you can kind of do this do, if you act later in the turn than your opponent - simply don't parry/dodge, and save your slow action for it's when your turn and attack then.
Fria Ligan
 
User avatar
Fragpuss
Topic Author
Posts: 122
Joined: Sun 23 Jul 2017, 14:02

Re: Movement in Combat

Mon 29 Jan 2018, 15:55

Not sure I manage to follow all the details of the discussion here, but I'll try to be clear and succinct. :)

If you're at SHORT distance (one zone away) and want to engage someone in close combat, it might be wise to only move to NEAR distance (same zone) in the first round, and then either let your enemy engage you, or move into ARM'S LENGTH and attack in the next turn - unless you have the MELEE CHARGE talent, which lets you move from NEAR to ARM'S LENGTH and attack with just one (slow) action.

Regarding counterstrikes - yes, in the advanced combat system, you can choose to use your action to strike your opponent when he attacks you, instead of parrying - just like in Coriolis, it just works a little differently. In the basic combat system, you can kind of do this do, if you act later in the turn than your opponent - simply don't parry/dodge, and save your slow action for it's when your turn and attack then.
Thanks Tomas. Agreed, this has become rather involved, but hopefully you're happy that we are all so excited for this game that we are prepared to spend so long poring over the rules and debating them here  :D
Anyway, Just to be sure I'm 100% clear based on your example - I have initiative and I do as you suggest, moving from SHORT to NEAR on my turn (Leaving me with a slow action)
  1. My opponent then moves to ARM'S LENGTH. Per your earlier post, I can't just attack him when he comes within range and so he has to initiate combat - is that right?
  2. If he chooses the hidden combo system, we each have one action and so select one card, correct?
  3. Can I select anything other than Parry or Dodge at this point?
  4. If I can select an Attack, but my opponent damages me with his action - this nullifies my action because technically he started combat even though I had initiative at the start of the round?
  5. If he chooses conventional combat instead, can I choose anything other than Dodge or Parry? From your earlier answer, I don't think I can.
If you can give me a definitive answer to those questions - then I'll consider the subject closed and we can move onto the next topic. ;)
 
User avatar
Tomas
Site Admin
Posts: 4896
Joined: Fri 08 Apr 2011, 11:31

Re: Movement in Combat

Thu 01 Feb 2018, 21:44

Hello!

1. Correct.
2. Correct.
3. If you use the advanced combat system, yes. If you use the basic Combat system, you can only dodge or parry in this situation.
4. Assuming you're using the advanced combat system, and use your remaining action to attack, your attack will be nullified if opponent hits you and causes Damage, because of pain (unless you have the talent to withstand pain).
5. See 3 above.
Fria Ligan

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests