Dunheved
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Re: Starter Set adventures too...simple? Childish?

Wed 19 Jan 2022, 23:03

I tend to agree with Niallism on this.

I have several family members who are not as embroiled in Tolkien as me. (understatement)
They like a game that they can join in quickly. And it is a successful game if - at the end of time, 2 to 3 hours max - they want to say how they would do it better next time.

The Starter Set scenarios do a better job of meeting their needs than I would have done. And, on my first reading, much more likely to match the needs of the newbies to have that first enjoyable experience.

I give the Starter Set the thumbs up because it is written in the way it is.
 
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Pangea
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Re: Starter Set adventures too...simple? Childish?

Thu 20 Jan 2022, 07:26

why does Bilbo want you to steal the map from Michel Delving in secret if he himself donated stuff to the museum
That is answered in the scenario: because he has tried multiple times to get access to it from the museum without success (and for other reasons that I will not spoil).

I am not sure what seem "childish" or "twee", if you read the scenarios to the end.
It read to me as a well executed move from the safety and merriment of the Shire, where things are light & "Hobbit-ish" indeed, to the Darkness that the Player-heroes discover exists outside the borders, and is even passing them right now.
The Enemy faced is rough, and the threat is great (loss of character is possible).

So, yes, you play Hobbits, thus you do not start RP-ing a weather-beaten Ranger Warden, but one who is excited about what sets out to be what "we" perceive as a silly little adventure. But it was quite fun to do that for all the players. And things get "real" rather fast... with those Hobbits having their eyes opened to the 'reality' of the world.

Besides that, I would push people to play the Red Book: there are several elements that I had not spotted for their value when reading, that come across really well in game.
Playing known characters turns out to be really fun for those familiar with the LOTR (one player has kept Lobelia "Spoons" as his character as we moved on to the campaign) ; as does meeting the NPCs (who are good hooks for further, much darker, events-- hey, one of them leads straight to the Paths of the Dead!) ; and the fact you can play more 'powerful' pre-gens and switch around ; the use of animals, and of building up a final result based on what seems like insignificant choices made during the sessions was nice ; and, finally, it was very nice to see that all this has the players creating a well-known part of LOTR History!

Mechanically, of course, it works well as you introduce rules along the way (and learn them if new to running 2E).

Frodo went from wanting to watch fireworks to having his finger bitten off in the heart of Mordor as he nearly fell to Sauron-- these scenarios get the Player-heroes moving along that path.
Playing in France, and online
 
ilgiallomondadori
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Re: Starter Set adventures too...simple? Childish?

Thu 20 Jan 2022, 09:48

why does Bilbo want you to steal the map from Michel Delving in secret if he himself donated stuff to the museum
That is answered in the scenario: because he has tried multiple times to get access to it from the museum without success (and for other reasons that I will not spoil).

I am not sure what seem "childish" or "twee", if you read the scenarios to the end.
It read to me as a well executed move from the safety and merriment of the Shire, where things are light & "Hobbit-ish" indeed, to the Darkness that the Player-heroes discover exists outside the borders, and is even passing them right now.
The Enemy faced is rough, and the threat is great (loss of character is possible).

So, yes, you play Hobbits, thus you do not start RP-ing a weather-beaten Ranger Warden, but one who is excited about what sets out to be what "we" perceive as a silly little adventure. But it was quite fun to do that for all the players. And things get "real" rather fast... with those Hobbits having their eyes opened to the 'reality' of the world.

Besides that, I would push people to play the Red Book: there are several elements that I had not spotted for their value when reading, that come across really well in game.
Playing known characters turns out to be really fun for those familiar with the LOTR (one player has kept Lobelia "Spoons" as his character as we moved on to the campaign) ; as does meeting the NPCs (who are good hooks for further, much darker, events-- hey, one of them leads straight to the Paths of the Dead!) ; and the fact you can play more 'powerful' pre-gens and switch around ; the use of animals, and of building up a final result based on what seems like insignificant choices made during the sessions was nice ; and, finally, it was very nice to see that all this has the players creating a well-known part of LOTR History!

Mechanically, of course, it works well as you introduce rules along the way (and learn them if new to running 2E).

Frodo went from wanting to watch fireworks to having his finger bitten off in the heart of Mordor as he nearly fell to Sauron-- these scenarios get the Player-heroes moving along that path.
Thanks for the response. I think I'll definitely try to run it. I think it's very well written, and very well presented, and very Tolkien, I'm just unsure if it will keep the players interest. I think if I shore it up a bit with some more descriptions, etc, and move through it, I hope it'll work well.
 
raekr
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Re: Starter Set adventures too...simple? Childish?

Fri 21 Jan 2022, 02:51

quick question, as I am new to GMing/LMing in general: in the starter set 3rd adventure, when they have to explore the caves to find Otho, the starter set rules state that the exploring character can make one roll every hour. It sounds like the players could fail to find Otho altogether. Based on the information in the Core rules about timelines, it seems like I can give the characters ~7 hours to find Otho, which means they get to roll Explore 7 times. After each roll, I'll roll, and hope I get 6+ off of one die (but also hope that the characters roll a success icon so I can add a point or two). As I type that out, I guess it's decently likely they will succeed in finding Otho, but just curious if anyone has failed to do this and what people's ideas are for resolving this particular adventure, since it seems like I can't say "and then Otho blew up with the fireworks and died" since that would go against the published LOTR stories. Heh.
 
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Pangea
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Re: Starter Set adventures too...simple? Childish?

Fri 21 Jan 2022, 09:22

quick question, as I am new to GMing/LMing in general
Personally, my quick answer would be: you are playing a game, to have fun (with friends).
So, if something seems to become boring or tedious, avoid it ; or if you feel something might bring more fun, go for it. Whatever the rules say.
Secondly: sometimes you end up having Real Life time constraints (only 1 hour left to play etc.), and I feel you can then make choices beyond the rules to speed things up skipping some less interesting things to go for what is important, vs. having to end without having time to really finish etc.

More specifically for your question:
"rules state that the exploring character can make one roll every hour. It sounds like the players could fail to find Otho altogether"
Yes, you are right--
Based on the information in the Core rules about timelines, it seems like I can give the characters ~7 hours to find Otho
--and I guess that's about right too (they have the night to do this before miners return etc.).
So, yes, you could end up not getting a 6.
I would see two 'answers' to this problem:
1. The rules read "to determine whether they find Otho, the Loremaster rolls a Success Die once for every successful ExPLORE Skill roll, adding 1 to the result for each Success icon rolled by the Player-hero."
"Adding 1 to the result for each Success icon rolled" could be seen in two ways: each Success icon rolled for that last roll ; or each Success icon rolled by the Player-hero since they started rolling (if you go for the 2nd option you add more and more to your d6 Roll, giving you a lot more chances to have them find Otho
2. What I did, for whatever it is worth, was roll the d6 and when I did not get a 6 (counting the +1s) I did not read the entry of that number, but 1st read entry 1, then entry 2 etc. (my idea being to scale things, have them see the lighter things first, then worse etc.). And, that way, I would have had them find Otho on the 6th roll at the latest (I think they got it on roll 3, or 4).
Playing in France, and online
 
raekr
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Re: Starter Set adventures too...simple? Childish?

Fri 21 Jan 2022, 17:33

Thanks for the response. I have the mantra "the rules are there to make the game fun, and if they're not making the game fun, bend them" on repeat in my head from when I was a player. It's the singular best advice for ttrpg!
We just played this last night and I already forget how I resolved it, heh. They did take all 7 rolls, but the player also didn't realize that he had some extra bonuses he could have been using for inspired rolls until about halfway through. They just barely eked out 6 at the end, but I think I ended up doing similar to your suggestion and using an extra success dice for the last roll.
This starter set is really good for an intro into GMing in general, that's for sure. I'm enjoying it.
The first two adventures were a little weird, I think because they were so light/light-hearted, kind of like the OP brought up with them feeling like "is this it?" But all the players had fun with this last one, as did I. Part of it is the newbies are all getting comfortable -- GM newbie included -- and we're figuring out the system. Which is the whole point. A+ starter set.
 
Inculta
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Re: Starter Set adventures too...simple? Childish?

Sun 23 Jan 2022, 02:28

Nothing wrong with lower-stakes adventures, in my opinion. Not everything in Middle-earth needs to be a fate-of-the-world journey.
 
stenamma
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Re: Starter Set adventures too...simple? Childish?

Mon 24 Jan 2022, 16:00

These scenarios appear to be a good way to ease new players into the game with a pre-generated character, learn the various game mechanics and get a feel for the overall nature of the game. Then they can create their own characters and start playing more challenging campaigns for real. Twee I agree, but I'm actually looking forward to a bit of tomfoolery around the shire.
 
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Pangea
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Re: Starter Set adventures too...simple? Childish?

Tue 25 Jan 2022, 08:43

Twee I agree, but I'm actually looking forward to a bit of tomfoolery around the shire.
I do not wish to spoil with specifics, but, as I stated above, this mini-campaign might seem to start as tomfoolery around the Shire, but it is quite easy to have the PCs drop.
My first attack roll as a 2E Loremaster was in the Red Book, that one roll dropped the PC to 0 Endurance with a Wound.
And the final fights are way tougher-- but by then you have ventured out of the Shire!
Playing in France, and online
 
Gollum9
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Re: Starter Set adventures too...simple? Childish?

Tue 25 Jan 2022, 16:05

I guess they will come out with some more ‘darker’ adventures down the line. I’m playing with a couple of people newer to RPG’s so I think it will be fine just for an introduction to the system.

Is there a guide on how many PC’s you need for the adventures? I couldn’t see anything and as I only have two, I was thinking of adding an NPC for them.

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