markyerhardt
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alt Language rules for tw2000

Wed 12 Jan 2022, 20:22

Language rules for tw2000

In Europe and around the world there are multiple languages. Being able to communicate is vital for survival in the tw2000. Any character can try to get a basic point a cross no roll need (ie sit down, Hands up, eat). But for more advanced communication a roll may be need this is up to the ref.

Language is an Int skill. A roll is only ever need with complex communication.

This system used the skill rank system to determine multi lingual communication, all character have a starting points to use on this at character creation. (You always start with native language is always rank A) You get you an average of you emp and you int in language ranks these are languages beyond your native. These can be spent one or multiple languages. Example Dave has an emp of C and a int of A he would get (B) 3 skill levels to spend this could be in one language at B or thee at D or combination thereof. If he had bilingual or Linguistics he will get one skill shift up on those skills. (Linguistics and Bilingual do not stack). You can spend xp as normal to gain added languages post character creation.

Rank D you can basic communication like “where is the post office” “my pencil is yellow”. But no complex or in depth communication
Rank C you can get around you speak the language and can read basic signs.
Rank B you can read and write the language
Rank A you a fluent in the language and understand cultural references

Specialty:
Bilingual: available for all childhood and blue collar backgrounds. Character can speak one added “native “ language and get +1 die shift to language.
Linguistics: add gets +1 die shift to language
 
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omnipus
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Re: alt Language rules for tw2000

Sun 16 Jan 2022, 02:40

I like this basic concept. I especially like that it essentially tells you at each rank what you can do without a die roll. I think the ranking is a bit punishing, however.
Author, Central Poland Sourcebook -- now available on DriveThruRPG
 
andresk
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Re: alt Language rules for tw2000

Mon 17 Jan 2022, 11:39

This is interesting, but maybe a bit too crunchy. I guess it really depends on your players.

The RAW say that the Linguist specialty specifies that you know another language well enough "to be taken as native on a successful roll". From that at least I assume that any communication in broken to accented speech is possible without the specialty. The specifics I would decide on on the fly based on PCs backgrounds eg. it's probably not very likely that a soldier from mid-US knows Lithuanian. Of course they can say their uncle was Lithuanian or something and then you can draw the line at the second uncle being Belgian.
 
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Re: alt Language rules for tw2000

Mon 17 Jan 2022, 19:21

One of the premises of the Year Zero mechanic seems to be that each attribute governs as many skills as the others. If you now add a new skill and a completely new mechanic on how to acquire, that changes a lot how the game works, especially during character creation. Also, I would ask myself, what this new rule brings to the game table? Does it make anything easier or quicker? Does it empower players to play a better game?

I think, going from the background story of a character is the much more empowering way of doing it. Does your player give a good reason, why their character should be able to communicate in a foreign language, despite lacking the specialty? For example, I might rule that every German character can roll to communicate in English or French (their choice) with other characters, both languages are highly common in secondary school here (but people usually only know one of them on a fluent level). For Polish characters, this would be Russian or English, depending on age and background, as these are the common languages in Polish high schools.g
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Vader
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Re: alt Language rules for tw2000

Mon 17 Jan 2022, 23:30

For example, I might rule that every German character can roll to communicate in English or French (their choice) with other characters, both languages are highly common in secondary school here (but people usually only know one of them on a fluent level).

Would you say this was true already in the 90’s?

I seem to recall a time when it was the Devil’s own job trying to travel through Germany or France on English alone…


While on the other hand, I know enough people personally with full idiomatic fluency in at least three languages (plus conversational level in a couple more, and a smattering of one or two besides) to know that this kind of background isn’t entirely unique.
Before you use the word "XENOMORPH" again, you should read this article through:

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/aliens-throwaway-line-confusion
 
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omnipus
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Re: alt Language rules for tw2000

Mon 17 Jan 2022, 23:52

One of the premises of the Year Zero mechanic seems to be that each attribute governs as many skills as the others. If you now add a new skill and a completely new mechanic on how to acquire, that changes a lot how the game works, especially during character creation. Also, I would ask myself, what this new rule brings to the game table? Does it make anything easier or quicker? Does it empower players to play a better game?
As it has come up time and time again in conversation, with many issues thus revealed, I'm inclined to say that the balancing act of "every attribute must always have the same number of skills as every other" does not offer benefits worth the cost, especially when there are already numerous exceptions within the RAW. If that's what you're even saying, I'm not sure.

That said, any rule on language and language-as-skills is going to create friction. Is it more fun/interesting for your group to be able to communicate easily with each other and whoever they come across? Or is it more fun and interesting that they might sometimes end up in situations where they need to communicate, but can't? I'm not making a judgment here, either one is a valid answer depending on the type of game and group you're running with. But really this is no different from groups that want to track every nut and bolt they are carrying, or want very detailed combat/weapon rules and specifications. People have varying ideas of what sort of "realism" is fun to them. The rules just need to support that -- even homebrew ones.

All that said, there is a strong convention within the rules already for broad skills that are sharpened by specialties. And for that reason I might offer taking a deeper look at language families, making those the skills, and offering specialties within.

Skill: Romance Languages
Specialties: Spanish, Italian, French, etc

Slavic Languages, Germanic Languages, Turkic Languages, etc etc etc.

All previous T2K games (and I think pretty much every GDW game) did this so the work has mostly been done already.

The other core premise in the rules is to only roll when failure is important or interesting, and that should most definitely apply to communication as well.
Author, Central Poland Sourcebook -- now available on DriveThruRPG
 
andresk
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Re: alt Language rules for tw2000

Mon 17 Jan 2022, 23:58

I seem to recall a time when it was the Devil’s own job trying to travel through Germany or France on English alone…
Well the french in particular seem to refuse to talk in english, even if they understand you. :D
At least that was my experience. Experiences may vary during the apocalypse where they potentially need your help. ;)

But by the late 90ies most of europe would most likely have 1-3 languages taught in schools in addition to their native tongue. Depending on the region the most common are english-russian. Then the other major ones german-french-spanish-italian. And again depending on where you live these may change, in Finland for example swedish is very common as it is recognised as an official state language iirc. I studied english, russian and german. Though the german teacher was more interested in pretending the highways were autobahns than teaching, so that didn't really stick too well. :D
 
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Re: alt Language rules for tw2000

Tue 18 Jan 2022, 18:11

Would you say this was true already in the 90’s?

I seem to recall a time when it was the Devil’s own job trying to travel through Germany or France on English alone…

While on the other hand, I know enough people personally with full idiomatic fluency in at least three languages (plus conversational level in a couple more, and a smattering of one or two besides) to know that this kind of background isn’t entirely unique.
I thought a bit about that, before typing it, since levels did vary considerably across the population. But for all intents and purposes, meaning in a WW3 setting, where German troops would have participated in a NATO-led war against Soviet forces and in combination with allies from Eastern Europe, I'd say: yes, all Germans one would meet there would be either functional English or French speakers. That's not to say they would fulfill the criteria of the specialization (i. e. "native level"), but I'd let all players with German (or indeed European NATO characters, safe native English and French native speakers: they suck at learning anything else) roll an unmodified test on INT or EMP plus relevant skills, when communication happens in one of these languages of their choice. Not both, though, that would go to far, and that's what the specialization is for.

Second languages are incredibly common in Europe, so I would allow a similar thing for Eastern European characters. Simply have them choose from Russian, English or the language of a neighboring country. It's not worth any skill levels, specializations or experience points etc., it's just common and it eases game flow.

The simple fact for me is: If you want to make language-barriers a thing in you game, either make it about a special and plot-relevant language (i. e. that piece of information in Russian that fosters the plot) or face the one big truth that you're putting a spoke in wheel of your own game for no apparent reason. If your group needs to go out, search for an expert and have them translate your MacGuffin, then that's a good story. If your group cannot communicate with each other or barely interact with the game world, then that's just stupid.
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SykesFive
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Re: alt Language rules for tw2000

Wed 19 Jan 2022, 19:36

Perhaps this is just me, but I think many people who are learning languages in school find written easier than spoken, so I'd rephrase what level B provides.

If you are learning a language with a different alphabet from your own (or are illiterate), then it's possible you'd have vastly different levels of ability with the written and spoken languages.
 
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Re: alt Language rules for tw2000

Thu 20 Jan 2022, 14:50

If you are learning a language with a different alphabet from your own (or are illiterate), then it's possible you'd have vastly different levels of ability with the written and spoken languages.
I think in a setting, where written communication would be very important, a specialty for the skill Persuasion that gives a bonus on reading and writing might help here. Other solutions would be to give a bonus on written communication (per the skill Persuasion), if Intelligence is higher than Empathy. Or you just roll Persuasion under Intelligence, when asking for written communication.

The latter would certainly be the quickest solution.
liber & infractus

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