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Collinsas
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Tank Crits with Protected Ammunition

Mon 27 Dec 2021, 12:15

Hello,

I know Free League wanted to keep things as simple as they could for the game and not dig into the minutia of every single piece of equipment. Still, I wanted to get some thoughts from other GMs on how to cover the blast panels and a few other safety features that exist* on most modern MBTs?

As a quick summation of what I'm talking about: modern tanks like the Leopard 2, Challenger, LeClerc, and Abrams are constructed with Magazine Blow Out panels, which redirect the force of an ammunition magazine detonation in a safe direction that protects the crew and allows the MBT to remain active—making the ammunition coking off in the moment more of a danger for those outside the vehicle when it occurs. Although unless I'm missing it, there is no RAW mechanic to represent this, and all vehicles who suffer an ammunition hit that causes their magazines to explode are immediately destroyed in such a manner as to render them beyond repair.

I was thinking for my games for vehicles so equipped; I might instead play the rules as designed, playing out the explosion on the area around the tank, but rather than having the tank Destroyed, I think I might reduce the vehicle's reliability by D3.

I'm looking forward to seeing peoples thoughts on this,
-Collinsas

*I was also thinking about what to do with onboard fire impression systems, but that's another question for now.
 
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Vader
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Re: Tank Crits with Protected Ammunition

Tue 28 Dec 2021, 11:44

Thing is, those panels aren’t really a “get out of jail free” card in that way. And even when they work as intended, an ammo compartment hit is still an extremely violent event.

If the hit that makes the magazine cook off also somehow compromises the bulkhead between the bustle and the fighting compartment, it may still injure or kill the crew in the turret, if not the driver as well.

Another issue is that the ammo compartment door is a bit of a hassle. Some crews (or loaders) elect to leave it open to save time in loading. A hit can also occur during those precise few seconds when the loader has the door open to collect a round. Also, with the conditions later in the war, the mechanism may even have become jammed, and the door can’t be closed.
And if the door is open when the ammo goes, then the panels do no good whatsoever; the crew is just as dead anyway.

After the event, the tank should be salvageable. It may even be 100% operational, apart from having no magazine, and able to withdraw on its own tracks.

I’d consider introducing a die roll that determines a scale of possible outcomes, from the RAW at one end, to magazine destroyed and needs to be repaired but no other effects whatsoever at the other.
Before you use the word "XENOMORPH" again, you should read this article through:

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/aliens-throwaway-line-confusion
 
AEB
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Re: Tank Crits with Protected Ammunition

Wed 29 Dec 2021, 05:40

The shock of the explosion of the magazine would knock out many of the tank's systems. One of the reasons the Russians lost so many tanks in Grozny was that the ERA when detonated by satchel charges being tossed onto the tanks jammed the turret and autoloaders and left the tanks crippled and blind.

As Vader pointed out many tanks will be lost due to the doors being open at the point of penetration. The Turks lost Leopard 2s and the Saudis early Abrams due to ammo cookoffs with the doors being left open.
 
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Vader
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Re: Tank Crits with Protected Ammunition

Fri 31 Dec 2021, 20:13

Thought I’d add: the event of the ammunition cooking off can look a few different ways. It can occur as one big explosion, if the hit can somehow ignite a large number of cases simultaneously, but it is much more likely to be a slower conflagration, with huge plumes of fire shooting out from the blown-off panels over a period of several minutes.

With no sealed enclosure to build pressure in, the propellant is apt to burn rather than detonate. Compare how gunpowder acts when you burn it in the open vs. when it’s sealed in something that can hold a bit of pressure.

None of these tanks use metal cartridge cases; they’re all fully or partially combustible, so there won’t be any pressure build-up in the ammunition itself, either.

Note that the ammunition burning will severely heat up the bulkhead and door. And you will not want to try to exit the tank while the fire is going.
Before you use the word "XENOMORPH" again, you should read this article through:

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/aliens-throwaway-line-confusion
 
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Collinsas
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Location: Texas

Re: Tank Crits with Protected Ammunition

Mon 17 Jan 2022, 01:37

Sorry for taking so long to reply; this has been excellent information. It makes sense that you can't bail out if there is a large fire burning on top of your turret, so what do you think would be a fair replacement reaction in such a situation? Beyond that, I'm trying to figure out what would make for a good luck roll to see if your bulkhead doors are closed during the impact?

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