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Vader
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Re: Errata

Sun 19 Dec 2021, 11:57

In my campaign, personal armor does not protect against large caliber rounds (20mm and larger). It only protects against secondary effects from them, shrapnel etc, but no direct hits.

That is probably the only sensible way to go about it.

The most advanced soldier armour around today, in 2021 (Russia’s Sotnik — and even that still seems to be somewhere around TRL 5-6), is claimed to just about be able to protect its wearer from a .50cal round.

And as noted earlier, the Bushmaster poses a challenge an order of magnitude higher.

There is no way in Jigoku anything a soldier could wear in the 90’s, up to an including full EOD gear, could be anything but butter to a 25mm projectile.
Before you use the word "XENOMORPH" again, you should read this article through:

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/aliens-throwaway-line-confusion
 
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Ursus Maior
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Re: Errata

Sun 19 Dec 2021, 16:51

I had a similar thought. Much of this problem stems from the fact that 25 mm HE is given an Armor value of +2. If you just define that anything beyond .50 cal hitting a person doesn't use positive Armor modifiers, that would change the calculation a lot.
liber & infractus
 
Oddball_E8
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Re: Errata

Sun 19 Dec 2021, 17:43


I doubt we'll find anyone who's been hit in the chest by a 20mm HE round and survived to tell us what really happened. ;)

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I mean... the same could be said for a .50 cal, yet that can still happen in the game.

My whole point in that very long reply was this:

This is a game.
A low damage roll from any weapon should be interpreted by the GM as a near hit or grazing shot.
How else would you explain someone surviving a shot to the chest from a hunting rifle, doing only 3 damage (which isn't even enough to cause a crit)?

So, like I said (in very many words), a 1 damage hit from a 25mm HE shell while wearing a flak jacket would have to be explained away as a "fluke shot that glanced off you right before exploding" or something like that.

Otherwize, you'll have to start making this game a WHOLE lot deadlier, since most people don't survive getting shot by any sort of rifle bullet without modern medical treatment. (And I'm not talking about the personal medkits that most PC's get)

Is it possible to survive a direct hit from a 25mm HE shell in this game?
Yes.
If you're very very lucky, and well protected, and they rolled a really really crappy roll out of their (Potentially) 8 die roll, and both hit locations impacted only the area protected by your flak/helmet.

Most likely, though, you're SOOL if you're fired at by a 25mm chaingun using HE.

PS. you can also argue that it's unrealistic that a .50 cal hitting someone square in the chest while wearing flak armour only does 3 damage if you only roll 1 hit... and if you roll a 1 on your crit roll, you only get a snapped collarbone. You don't even get knocked down by the impact!
See how this is starting to sound ridiculous?
Yes, you can survive many things in this game that you probably shouldn't.
But the alternative is to make almost every single shot lethal.
And that wouldn't be too fun.
 
Oddball_E8
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Re: Errata

Sun 19 Dec 2021, 17:52

In my campaign, personal armor does not protect against large caliber rounds (20mm and larger). It only protects against secondary effects from them, shrapnel etc, but no direct hits.

/Makhfi
That's a very fair houserule. I might go with that one myself.
 
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Re: Errata

Mon 20 Dec 2021, 16:29


I doubt we'll find anyone who's been hit in the chest by a 20mm HE round and survived to tell us what really happened. ;)

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I mean... the same could be said for a .50 cal, yet that can still happen in the game.
Glancing hit!

Within the 10 seconds of a round, the character twists his torso, feels a *thump* and sees a tracer vanishing behind him.

Not every hit is center mass.
liber & infractus
 
Oddball_E8
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Re: Errata

Tue 21 Dec 2021, 06:06


I doubt we'll find anyone who's been hit in the chest by a 20mm HE round and survived to tell us what really happened. ;)

-
I mean... the same could be said for a .50 cal, yet that can still happen in the game.
Glancing hit!

Within the 10 seconds of a round, the character twists his torso, feels a *thump* and sees a tracer vanishing behind him.

Not every hit is center mass.
Which... was my entire point this entire time.
 
andresk
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Re: Errata

Tue 21 Dec 2021, 10:17

Decide on the nature of the hit after you have calculated the damage and all your problems will be solved. I really thought this was the default way of doing things in pretty much any RPG (unless specified otherwise). It also helps a lot with the pacing. Eg.
"The orc hits you in the head with it's two handed sword..." *rolls* *cough* "Uhh what's your AC again?" *crickets* "Okay, so your helmet protects you, but you take one blunt force damage." or
*roll for whatever* "The orc swings at the paladin, his giant sword barely just glancing off the helmet of the knight. You suffer one blunt damage from the impact."
I know which sounds better for me. In T2K it would translate into something like...
"The BTR shoots at you with the autocannon" *rolls* "...it hits you in the chest... uhh what's your armor again?" *calculations* "it does one damage" *muffled snorts in the background* "That makes no sense" or
*rolls and calculations* "The BTR opens fire on your location. One of the autocannon shells bursts through the window frame and explodes behind you. A piece of shrapnel pierces your flak jacket, you take one damage."
 
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Re: Errata

Tue 21 Dec 2021, 11:37

Which... was my entire point this entire time.
Sorry, Oddball, I joined the discussion late and didn't follow each user's opinion closely. I'm onboard with you, obviously. Andresk's post sounds very good, in my opinion, too.
liber & infractus
 
Heffe
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Re: Errata

Sat 15 Jan 2022, 02:29

We may have discovered an error yesterday, otherwise this appears to be a somewhat bizarre design decision that could use some clarification, specifically related to 40mm grenade rounds.

So RAW, a 40mm HE round from a large gun would do 5 base dmg, have a D blast radius, and have a +2 armor modifier.
A 40mm grenade from a grenade launcher would do 3 base dmg, have a D blast radius, and have a +0 armor modifier.
A frag grenade (such as an m67), would do 2 base dmg, has a D blast radius, and have a +1 armor modifier.

Is there an explanation for the differences in damage and armor modifiers for these? Perhaps the Grenade launcher rounds per the stats in the book are for HEDP rounds or something? I can understand that perhaps the base damage might differ due to kinetic energy involved with each shot. I can even understand that the 40mm HE large caliber round maybe is hollow or something, and therefore gets a higher armor modifier. But from my understanding a frag grenade typically would have a far larger blast than a 40mm GL round, so why should the GL round have an armor mod of +0 while a regular frag has a +1?
 
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Re: Errata

Sat 15 Jan 2022, 16:53

I'm onboard with the notion that a 40 mm GL round is HEDP, giving it better or less abysmal armor penetration. By these rules, frag grenades might be a bit underpowered, though.
liber & infractus

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