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omnipus
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Thoughts on Big Dreams?

Tue 05 Oct 2021, 20:11

My group has been playing for quite a while now, some of them through more than one character, with a few people who have come and gone. I think most of them are fairly good roleplayers and sometimes it even gets quite confrontational between them when their outlooks or goals don't quite align.

One thing I've noticed, though? None of them gives a damn about their Big Dream. Session after session, month after month, I ask the question, "Did you risk or sacrifice something significant to realize your big dream?" The answer has been YES maybe 2-3 times. Moral Codes come up and are pulling their weight. But never Big Dreams. I remind them often that they can change their Big Dreams if they don't feel like it fits. No one has done it, even once.

Maybe it's that Big Dreams run counter to the fiction you have to accept to run a campaign, especially with a bunch of random characters from very different backgrounds -- "Why does this group stick together?" Well, the answer is often simply "There wouldn't be a game otherwise." Some of the group's Big Dreams would certainly split the group up, eventually (not everyone wants to go to Uzbekistan, go figure).

But basically I keep coming back to this issue where Big Dreams are really not pulling their weight when it comes to creating compelling roleplay situations, driving the campaign, or anything else. Have you run into this in your games? Or, if not, any idea why not?
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Fenhorn
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Re: Thoughts on Big Dreams?

Tue 05 Oct 2021, 20:58

I think the big dream is something that the players need to talk about as a group, so their dreams mesh together. The dream should also be something realistic and not necessary that far off. My players have been playing YZE-games for years (most of them have some sort of goal or dream), so when se have our session 0 we will have a discussion about this so they can work out dreams that both mesh together and can be worked at.
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Re: Thoughts on Big Dreams?

Tue 05 Oct 2021, 22:29

Yeah, maybe it's just a player cohesiveness/politeness thing. I worked with the players to make their dreams distant, long-term, but achievable with steady progress... but really no one has even done so much as chip away at it.
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Re: Thoughts on Big Dreams?

Tue 05 Oct 2021, 23:32

My plan is to have shorter campaigns, that form a big campaign, like a tv-show (like seasons). My players should pick a big dream based on the goal of the (short) campaign that could be achievable.
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omnipus
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Re: Thoughts on Big Dreams?

Wed 06 Oct 2021, 00:17

Probably a good idea starting out. Of course if they all pick basically the same thing then you end up with another problem -- it basically becomes de facto that they'll pursue it every session. Handing out free XP isn't bad necessarily, but it does in its own way defeat the purpose I think...
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Re: Thoughts on Big Dreams?

Wed 06 Oct 2021, 00:46

Probably a good idea starting out. Of course if they all pick basically the same thing then you end up with another problem -- it basically becomes de facto that they'll pursue it every session. Handing out free XP isn't bad necessarily, but it does in its own way defeat the purpose I think...
I have to add to our discussion that each big dream should be something specific and (fairly) unique to that character, but that they need to be something that can be done with the group.
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Re: Thoughts on Big Dreams?

Thu 07 Oct 2021, 02:16

Big Dreams have been a bit weird in my campaign as well. It's definitely been a sticking point on character creation, with me forcing the players to pick one. I've got some weird ones so far. One character wants to open a fitness center and become a personal trainer (definitely never getting any xp from that one) and one player has the classic ode to Zombieland and wants to find a box of twinkies (he changed it to Ho-Ho's but we all know what he's playing at) he goes out of his way to search for twinkies every single session so, easy XP there? Most people have the old reliable get back to the USA trope but does that mean they just have to play the game and say "let's go there and maybe we can find a way back home" every session for XP? Maybe a short term and long term goal selection on the big dream, like my big dream is to get back to my wife and kids, if they're still alive, but my short term goal is to find an alcohol still so we can start making our own fuel.
It's an interesting mechanic and not one my players are used to. They all wanted a list of big dreams to pick from (and moral codes for that matter) to start out with, every character asked for one. ("Where do I find the dreams in the Players Guide?" was asked every time a new player started to make a character) so I guess they need to get a feel for what the big dream really means as a game mechanic.
I too tell everyone they can change their dream each session but nobody has...
 
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omnipus
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Re: Thoughts on Big Dreams?

Thu 07 Oct 2021, 21:05

Sounds like similar problems for very different reasons, player-wise.

Some of those you mentioned I would have flatly said "no" to at my table, but I guess it comes down to the exact tone of your game. I had a player who was always cracking jokes and doing irrational things getting everyone into danger at every possible opportunity. He tried to play it off as "this guy has gone a bit nutty in the post-apocalypse, that makes sense!" but, honestly, he just wanted to troll the game. His play style wasn't a good fit for a serious setting and eventually we both agreed on that.

The rules do say "Did you risk or sacrifice something significant to realize your big dream?" so I'd say that's the answer to your twinkie problem and others (unless he truly is running into danger all the time in pursuit, in which case... more power to him? How does everyone else feel about that?).

I do agree that more examples of big dreams would be a big help to many players and GMs. I referred players to some of the examples from the character archetypes, but I don't even think some of the examples given in the book are super great, really. (maybe I'll include some more in my supplement) I came up with some other examples and made sure to workshop each one with my players so that they wouldn't be too easy, wouldn't be impossible, and would reveal aspects of the world. As per the thread, though, I can't say it's really helped.
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Re: Thoughts on Big Dreams?

Thu 07 Oct 2021, 22:00

I have one player who chose to have a sister doing service in another unit. Hasn't heard from her in a year and are now looking for her. Another one wants to find a mbt, 'cause he thinks tanks are cool. So, they got a lead on a garage rumored to store an old tank but while on their way over there they overheard radio chatter from the unit the first characters sister belonged to. This was their first lead on her and her unit, but from the chatter they deducted they where in the completely other direction. Oh, what to do? Find the unit before they moved out or go for the tank before the marauders got to it? Well, they had to decide and then the one making the best argument (or tricked the other characters) and got them to follow, then got the XP. It's quite often one or the other in my game.

Another goal is to find a KGB officer who was responsible for the capture, interrogation and ultimately death of one PCs former squad. One PC wants to return home to see what's left of his house and family since he's from the region. Just not next door...

"So, you want to search for both, too bad they're in opposite directions and you know you have a chance at one or the other, not both..."
 
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omnipus
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Re: Thoughts on Big Dreams?

Thu 07 Oct 2021, 23:51

Hard choices always help. Maybe I need to spend more time reviewing the big dreams before each session and trying to work those in. Problem is that they just mostly seem quite tangential to immediate opportunities and super opposed to each other in the longer term.
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