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Vader
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Re: Finland

Sat 14 Aug 2021, 17:30

So: calling all Finns and people with insight in Finnish conditions immediately preceding the end of the Cold War, and thoughts on how these conditions might extrapolate to 1997, through a 90's not of détente, not of a drunk taking over the Kremlin, not of a dissolution of the Warsaw Pact, not of extensive cuts in Western military procurement, dismantled national security systems, and radically reduced armies, navies, and air forces; but rather of increased political tension, extensive investments, and radical military build-up.
Quick reply to this, just to make sure what the aim of the discussion is: Are you asking for a 4E campaign or a homebrew campaign idea? For a strict 4E campaign I'd argue that the Warsaw Pact has been dissolved in 1990 [sic] as it was in known history. Additionally, budget cuts to Western military procurement would have occured since they were agreed upon in or before 1990. Also, the dissolution of the Warsaw Pact, the Westernization of former Eastern Bloc nations and the (relatively) peaceful transition of all of this in the 4E timeline would have given this a boost.

Well ... as you'll notice from the time stamps, I started this thread way back when I still harboured the — in retrospect I realise, somewhat naïve — misapprehension that Ligan actually was soliciting feedback on the Alpha release's world building. I thought — or hoped, at least — that they'd be inclined to take on board all the widespread criticism and comments, here and on other sites, take the text back to the drawing board, and make use of all that feedback to work with Chris and create a credible back story to the War.

As it is though, the back story we ended up with — that assumes a timeline that progresses exactly as it did historically all the way up until August of 1991, but then ends up with the coup succeeding and the USSR all by its bankrupt lonesome running over most of Europe — is, I'm sorry to say, quite nonsensical. Which, one might say — and some have — is okay; it's just a fantasy game, none of it happened in reality. It might as well be UFO's and zombies, it makes no difference. It doesn't need to be — indeed, it can't be — "realistic", since it isn't "real". Or so the argument goes, anyway.
But to me, it's much the same as writing an alternate history where Germany wins WWII, that progresses exactly as it did historically, not even with minor departures, all the way until the Siege of Berlin ... where the Germans suddenly defeat the Red Army and then proceed to roll up the Western Front! Without exaggeration, it's on that level.
We discussed this quite extensively back then, here, here, here, and here, among a multitude of other places.

So, given what I've just said ... in order for me to assimilate any information provided into a context that makes sense to me, we will have to consider the question to be posed within the framework of a "homebrew". It would not fit — nor indeed make any sense, given the format I phrase it in — within the framework of the current "canonical" 4E world building.
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Ursus Maior
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Re: Finland

Sun 15 Aug 2021, 21:57

No need to get vitriolic. I was just trying to fathom, where your timeline deviates and what your though process is. All good, I have my problems with aspects of the FL timeline as well. Though that goes for the original GDW editions as well. But that's for another place to discuss about.
liber & infractus
 
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Viperion_NZ
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Re: Finland

Mon 16 Aug 2021, 09:19

That's....not vitriolic. Like, at all.
 
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Fenhorn
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Re: Finland

Mon 16 Aug 2021, 11:27

Moderator Message: There are a lot of exaggerations made in this thread and apparently bitterness because someones new toy didn't turned up exactly how he imagined it. Stop this nonsense. This thread is about Finland and the T2K4E setting, so discuss that here. Also, linking to threads that are outdated (many of the alpha threads contain things that has been changed one way or the other) will not help much either. Discuss the finalized version, good, bad, whatever.
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