n4tune8
Topic Author
Posts: 41
Joined: Thu 22 Apr 2021, 22:11
Location: Montreal, Canada

Cantrips... do we really need them?

Sat 02 Oct 2021, 17:37

I guess the topic is controversial, but I'm wondering why RoS kept cantrips from 5E. Magic in Symbaroum is dangerous and you're supposed to gamble with your soul each time you cast a spell. Would you gamble with your soul to light a torch, perform a basic attack (many many times per day) or perform parlor tricks?
Mystics (as opposed to Wizards in 5E) can use light armor and simple weapons and have the same d8 Hit Dice as everyone else. When they need a light, they should bring a torch/lantern. When they want to attack a single weak opponent, they should pick up their staff/spear/light crossbow/horseman's bow and just whack at it. Now, when the risk is great, when confronting a real threat, then use magic, by all means.
All this to say that cantrips (at least the 2 favored ones that you get) go against the dark fantasy of Symbaroum, especially against the idea that 'once upon a time, magic was free of burden but not anymore'.
 
Ugglefar
Posts: 115
Joined: Thu 04 Aug 2016, 21:17
Location: Sweden/USA

Re: Cantrips... do we really need them?

Sat 02 Oct 2021, 19:00

I guess the topic is controversial, but I'm wondering why RoS kept cantrips from 5E. Magic in Symbaroum is dangerous and you're supposed to gamble with your soul each time you cast a spell. Would you gamble with your soul to light a torch, perform a basic attack (many many times per day) or perform parlor tricks?
Mystics (as opposed to Wizards in 5E) can use light armor and simple weapons and have the same d8 Hit Dice as everyone else. When they need a light, they should bring a torch/lantern. When they want to attack a single weak opponent, they should pick up their staff/spear/light crossbow/horseman's bow and just whack at it. Now, when the risk is great, when confronting a real threat, then use magic, by all means.
All this to say that cantrips (at least the 2 favored ones that you get) go against the dark fantasy of Symbaroum, especially against the idea that 'once upon a time, magic was free of burden but not anymore'.

I had a discussion with Jacob about it here on the forums (see my post "Some feedback on RoS v.2.0.2."). To summaries the design choice seems to be that the use of cantrips is so ingrained in the balance design of the game engine for 5e that it is hard to work around it. Personally I would prefer to see powered up cantrips that you need to be more caution about using. But getting the balance right might be hard.
 
SoulAngel
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue 31 Aug 2021, 19:29

Re: Cantrips... do we really need them?

Sun 03 Oct 2021, 11:48

yea i agree with the original post... but i can understand the point of view of the Symbaroum design team.
 
n4tune8
Topic Author
Posts: 41
Joined: Thu 22 Apr 2021, 22:11
Location: Montreal, Canada

Re: Cantrips... do we really need them?

Sun 03 Oct 2021, 14:20


I had a discussion with Jacob about it here on the forums (see my post "Some feedback on RoS v.2.0.2."). To summaries the design choice seems to be that the use of cantrips is so ingrained in the balance design of the game engine for 5e that it is hard to work around it. Personally I would prefer to see powered up cantrips that you need to be more caution about using. But getting the balance right might be hard.

What is ingrained in the balance design of 5e is the ability to make a basic attack dealing x damage at level 1, 2x at level 5, 3x at level 11 and 4x at level 17. Damaging cantrips let casters cope with warriors and rogues increasing damage. The ability to cast Mage Hand, Prestidigitation or Light at will is not part of that balance, but it does affect the flavor of the game (i.e. high fantasy vs dark fantasy).
If it is really about balance, and considering that only Mystics can cast cantrips (in RoS), how about moving the ability to do consistent damage to a class feature as opposed to Cantrips. I don't know if each approach should have a different way to deal damage or if it should be the same for all Mystics. Easier to design if common to all Mystics, better flavor if by approach. You could give the equivalent of Vicious Mockery to Troll Singers, Sacred Flame to Theurgs, Thorn Whip to Witches, etc...

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