goonytunes
Topic Author
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed 01 Sep 2021, 00:02

The d8 Hit Dice

Thu 02 Sep 2021, 23:29

I noticed that, with the exception of Goblins, every Origin and Class has a d8 hit dice. An 8-foot tall, 300 pound Troll Warrior has the same hit dice as a four-foot tall Dwarf Mystic. I just wanted to ask if this was intentional, but also balanced?
My understanding of classic 5e D&D is that the hit dice (and therefore hit points) of each class is indicative of their general battlefield role: the d12 barbarian tank vs the d6 sorcerer glass cannon.
If all RoS origins and classes have a unified hit dice, is this for the sake of balancing Corruption against spellcasters? To make martial classes more vulnerable?
I actually like the idea of linking Origins to hit dice because it accounts for the natural build of the character's race, but it seems odd to me that they would all be (except for goblins) the same - especially Ogres and Trolls.
 
sandor7
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue 06 Jul 2021, 04:58

Re: The d8 Hit Dice

Fri 03 Sep 2021, 04:38

on the dm side of 5e, all monster and npc hit dice are dictated by their size, so there is a precedent for this in the original game, and this is consistent with what we've seen there. also, i think it will really drive home how vulnerable and exposed these characters are, especially when you factor in the new rest mechanics (which was what originally piqued my interest in this project, that and the spellcasting mechanics).
 
Barbarianbob
Posts: 47
Joined: Sat 16 Jan 2021, 02:16

Re: The d8 Hit Dice

Fri 03 Sep 2021, 16:25

on the dm side of 5e, all monster and npc hit dice are dictated by their size, so there is a precedent for this in the original game, and this is consistent with what we've seen there. also, i think it will really drive home how vulnerable and exposed these characters are, especially when you factor in the new rest mechanics (which was what originally piqued my interest in this project, that and the spellcasting mechanics).
Agreed! Love it!
 
goonytunes
Topic Author
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed 01 Sep 2021, 00:02

Re: The d8 Hit Dice

Fri 03 Sep 2021, 20:44

on the dm side of 5e, all monster and npc hit dice are dictated by their size, so there is a precedent for this in the original game, and this is consistent with what we've seen there. also, i think it will really drive home how vulnerable and exposed these characters are, especially when you factor in the new rest mechanics (which was what originally piqued my interest in this project, that and the spellcasting mechanics).
I'm going to push back a little here - 5e monster and NPC hit points are largely dictated by their CR, not their size. A tiny CR18 demilich with 80HP is far more dangerous than a large CR2 ogre with 59HP. I do fully agree with you in the need to make the players feel vulnerable, but given the nature of Classes and their role on the battlefield, I feel as though a wizard should feel more vulnerable (in terms of HP) than a warrior, and/or a human should feel more vulnerable than a troll - and their hit dice should follow suit. Surely a d10 hit dice would be appropriate for a troll that's 8 feel tall?
 
sandor7
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue 06 Jul 2021, 04:58

Re: The d8 Hit Dice

Fri 03 Sep 2021, 21:56

on the dm side of 5e, all monster and npc hit dice are dictated by their size, so there is a precedent for this in the original game, and this is consistent with what we've seen there. also, i think it will really drive home how vulnerable and exposed these characters are, especially when you factor in the new rest mechanics (which was what originally piqued my interest in this project, that and the spellcasting mechanics).
I'm going to push back a little here - 5e monster and NPC hit points are largely dictated by their CR, not their size. A tiny CR18 demilich with 80HP is far more dangerous than a large CR2 ogre with 59HP. I do fully agree with you in the need to make the players feel vulnerable, but given the nature of Classes and their role on the battlefield, I feel as though a wizard should feel more vulnerable (in terms of HP) than a warrior, and/or a human should feel more vulnerable than a troll - and their hit dice should follow suit. Surely a d10 hit dice would be appropriate for a troll that's 8 feel tall?
Hit points are dictated by CR, hit dice size, however, is dictated by the creature's size. I dont know its cool to qoute rule here, but check the relevant book on pages 275-76. Me and The Rock are both humans; our ability to take a punch is more impacted by what part of ourselves we invested time and energy into, not by what job we applied for and accepted.

How vulnerable specific roles play is affected by what armor they are wearing, how much attaention they paid to Dexterity for AC, and Constitution for hit points. Even here, casters are more vulnerable since they have two things they need to spend hit dice on; on long journeys and adventures, this will likely leave them seriously exposed.
 
goonytunes
Topic Author
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed 01 Sep 2021, 00:02

Re: The d8 Hit Dice

Fri 03 Sep 2021, 23:58

on the dm side of 5e, all monster and npc hit dice are dictated by their size, so there is a precedent for this in the original game, and this is consistent with what we've seen there. also, i think it will really drive home how vulnerable and exposed these characters are, especially when you factor in the new rest mechanics (which was what originally piqued my interest in this project, that and the spellcasting mechanics).
I'm going to push back a little here - 5e monster and NPC hit points are largely dictated by their CR, not their size. A tiny CR18 demilich with 80HP is far more dangerous than a large CR2 ogre with 59HP. I do fully agree with you in the need to make the players feel vulnerable, but given the nature of Classes and their role on the battlefield, I feel as though a wizard should feel more vulnerable (in terms of HP) than a warrior, and/or a human should feel more vulnerable than a troll - and their hit dice should follow suit. Surely a d10 hit dice would be appropriate for a troll that's 8 feel tall?
Hit points are dictated by CR, hit dice size, however, is dictated by the creature's size. I dont know its cool to qoute rule here, but check the relevant book on pages 275-76. Me and The Rock are both humans; our ability to take a punch is more impacted by what part of ourselves we invested time and energy into, not by what job we applied for and accepted.

How vulnerable specific roles play is affected by what armor they are wearing, how much attaention they paid to Dexterity for AC, and Constitution for hit points. Even here, casters are more vulnerable since they have two things they need to spend hit dice on; on long journeys and adventures, this will likely leave them seriously exposed.
dang sandor you got me there, I guess I never read that far into the DMG. My bad.
Well I've said my peace, so I guess we'll see how it goes.
 
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jonathanpay
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Re: The d8 Hit Dice

Wed 08 Sep 2021, 09:02

Something I never understood about a D&D five he was how for player characters fee at dice is based on the class not the AM player origin but also the origin of species race in regular D&D are all media even if the race is considered to be large or small otherwise you’re classed as medium for practicality sake I think which I don’t get it.

I agree that the dice should be more varied for the same room origins here and if a goblin is going to be a D6 then I am trolls and ogres should be a D 12 but I get the whole roll twice pick the higher one in terms of starting HP but I still think that they should have bigger head dice because they have bigger creatures and there able to take more burden or punishment
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Spat
Posts: 56
Joined: Sat 04 Jan 2020, 13:32

Re: The d8 Hit Dice

Fri 10 Sep 2021, 11:25

I personally find the d8 hit dice for trolls and ogres feel awkward if compared to the d6 + Dodge as a Bonus Action for the Goblin.
The "balance concern" didn't work for the Goblin as the Dodge as a Bonus Action is a very powerful feature.
So why not rule that the ogres and trolls are d10 hit dice and Large, as they should be ? I don't see any consequence more unbalancing than this Dodge given to Goblins.
It is even said "Trolls average 8 feet in height" : how can a 8 feet tall creature (average , so possibly even more), described as muscular, fit in a 5ft square when fighting ?
All this is not very immersive for the player.
 
Ugglefar
Posts: 83
Joined: Thu 04 Aug 2016, 21:17
Location: Sweden/USA

Re: The d8 Hit Dice

Sat 11 Sep 2021, 05:11

I personally find the d8 hit dice for trolls and ogres feel awkward if compared to the d6 + Dodge as a Bonus Action for the Goblin.
The "balance concern" didn't work for the Goblin as the Dodge as a Bonus Action is a very powerful feature.
So why not rule that the ogres and trolls are d10 hit dice and Large, as they should be ? I don't see any consequence more unbalancing than this Dodge given to Goblins.
It is even said "Trolls average 8 feet in height" : how can a 8 feet tall creature (average , so possibly even more), described as muscular, fit in a 5ft square when fighting ?
All this is not very immersive for the player.

Firbolgs, Bugbears and Goliaths from Standard D&D 5e are up to 8 feet in height and are classified as Medium creatures.

If I recall correctly being a Large creature affects a lot of different things, like your reach, your ability to fit into certain dungeons et cetera. So as I have understood it most game developers using the OGL 5e avoid making player characters Large by default.

So in this regard I don't think it's strange they have kept trolls and ogres as Medium creatures.
 
Ugglefar
Posts: 83
Joined: Thu 04 Aug 2016, 21:17
Location: Sweden/USA

Re: The d8 Hit Dice

Sat 11 Sep 2021, 05:15

Something I never understood about a D&D five he was how for player characters fee at dice is based on the class not the AM player origin but also the origin of species race in regular D&D are all media even if the race is considered to be large or small otherwise you’re classed as medium for practicality sake I think which I don’t get it.

I agree that the dice should be more varied for the same room origins here and if a goblin is going to be a D6 then I am trolls and ogres should be a D 12 but I get the whole roll twice pick the higher one in terms of starting HP but I still think that they should have bigger head dice because they have bigger creatures and there able to take more burden or punishment

Trolls and Ogres do get more HP though, thanks to their Tough Skin trait.

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