Ugglefar
Posts: 80
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Re: Alpha Feedback - Player's Guide Section 4 Classes & Feats

Mon 06 Sep 2021, 03:13

Page 128: "We cover the Explorer approach for those who wish to get into trouble in the wild, the Former Cultist for scoundrels with a dark history, a Guild Thief for one that follows (certain) rules, sappers that attack the foundations of society, Spies that seek secret information on behalf of their master, Thugs that serve as the chosen enforcers of other criminals and Treasure-hunters that are only concerned with finding more valuables." - Sappers it the only approach not spelled with a capital letter.

Page 128: Steadfast Watch: "At 3rd level, you become so adept at preparing and securing campsites in the wilderness that some of your party can gain additional benefits during a long rest. Choose a number of creatures up to your proficiency bonus to each regain an additional Hit Die." - But you don't regain Hit Dice from a long rest? Only from an Extended Rest? So why does it say "regain an additional Hit Die"?

Page 129: Wilderness Home: "camp is always considered a safe location.." - Remote one full stop.

Page 131: Blade Work: "If you’re wielding only knives or daggers and your opponent has longer weapons they have disadvantage on their attack rolls against you." - This sounds way too strong, and not very logical. Not counting logical, perhaps this should only apply against weapons with reach of more than 5 feet.

Page 131: Sapper. - Sapper is sometimes written as "Sapper", sometimes as "sapper". Please be consistent.
 
Ugglefar
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Re: Alpha Feedback - Player's Guide Section 4 Classes & Feats

Mon 06 Sep 2021, 03:32

Page 108: Spellcasting. - I think you should specify that you don't use spell slots in Symbaroum.
 
Spat
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Re: Alpha Feedback - Player's Guide Section 4 Classes & Feats

Mon 06 Sep 2021, 16:39

Page 143, Holy Aura : The example says « She gains 4 (1d4 + 2) temporary Corruption and does 12 points of radiant damage in addition to her weapon damage. » Shouldn’t she gain only (1d4+2) temporary corruption, and inflict 3(1d4+2) radiant damage ? The example is not consistent with the text.
Page 143, Witchhammer : does that include ranged weapon also ?
Page 144, Acrobatic Fighter : does that work with ranged or spell attack also ? One can understand that an acrobat fighter can dodge your melee weapon attack, but a crossbow bolt seems dubious and a spell unreal.
Page 144, Combat speciality : For Axe Artists, there is an action economy problem in the feature. Apparently the main ability of Axe Artists is to wield 2 weapons. The off-hand attack is done with a bonus action. Then you would have to choose to loose your off-hand attack to gain advantage on your 2nd attack coming from Multi Attack. This is almost pointless as you could roll already a 2nd d20 thanks to your off-hand, potentially inflicting damages twice.
Page 145, Wrathguard : « There are tales of barbarians who have been appointed to the Wrathguard after having left their clans, and therefore refused to serve » Shouldn’t it be more logical with « There are tales of barbarians who have left the Wrathguard after having been appointed, and therefore refused to serve. »
Page 145, Wrathful Fury : If I understand well, the feature lacks the damage resistance of Berserker’s Rage. So it shouldn’t be called « rage » in « You can also end your rage on your turn as a bonus action. »
Page 145, Blood Combat : do all the features works only when in wrathful fury, or permanently ? It is overpowered if permanently, especially the regeneration part.
Page 145, Relentless : similar to 5E but the DC is set to 5. Why do you change something that works well ? And the DC5 is pointless as a level 13 Warrior simply cannot fail a DC5 Constitution Saving Throw. So that’s a free shot.
Page 147 : text for the picture is not in English
Page 148 : Commanding Voice. What king of Saving throws ? Against fear, charm, etc.., which makes sense, or against Poison, Fire, etc which is nonsense ?
Page 152, Wanted : what is the DC of the test ?
As a general statement, the Burdens are quite useless : if a character wants to role play an addiction for example, he just role plays it, same for Seizures or Sickness. They don’t need a mechanical rule that will end up being activated at a no fun moment, like killing someone for Seizure or Sickness. And in the end the character just gets the same bonus as a normal Ability Score Increase…
Page 153, Retribution : is it intended to split between you and an enemy all the damages you receive whatever the origin, or just the damage this particular enemy inflicts you ? This is too powerful, no Saving Throw : you just end up killing the big boss by hitting the dwarf and healing him in parallel. Should have a Saving Throw each Turn I think.
Page 153, Change Self : How can it be detected ? Saving Throw ? By Touch ? By special senses like Blindsight ?
Page 153, Tough : « you must use the new value » so the feat could end up as a punishment, the player should be able to keep the best roll.
Page 153, Robust : the description talks about « weapon blows », but the mechanics as described would work for poison, fall, and all other kind of non magical damages. It should maybe talk about « piercing, slashing, bludgeoning weapon damage »
Page 154 : text for the picture is not in English
Page 155, Command Expert : the text should specify if it works for melee attacks, ranged weapon attacks (dubious concerning damage as the missile cannot receive command) and spell attacks (unreal)
Parry : a clearer wording could be « You can use your reaction when being attacked… », and the text should also specify if it works for melee attacks, ranged weapon attacks (dubious) and spell attacks (unreal)
Combat Magic Expert : the wording uses Bonus Action to add a d6 to damage, not Reaction unlike the other feats. It could provoque the fact that the feat cannot be used as the damage sometimes happens not on the Mystic turn, but on the creature turn (such as Flaming Sphere). I think keeping a Reaction works better.
Page 157, Unity : « After the first hour of being fused with you, any permanent Corruption in the staff is drawn to you. At the end of the second hour the staff loses a point of permanent Corruption and you gain that point. » Confusing, as the 1st sentence could mean the staff has already given its permanent corruption points.
Page 157 : Skirmish Expert, the fact it uses Bonus Action is not good for the action economy of the Scoundrel who usually already uses it for Cunning Action. Using Reaction could work better.
Page 157 : Melee Expert. Here again Bonus Action. It is not so annoying for the warrior, but anyway I think for clearer rules, it should use either Reaction, either Bonus Action for all similar feats. DMs will thank you.
Last edited by Spat on Tue 28 Sep 2021, 12:52, edited 1 time in total.
 
samirvsmachine
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Re: Alpha Feedback - Player's Guide Section 4 Classes & Feats

Tue 07 Sep 2021, 01:12

p 98: Ability Score Improvement or Feat: ASI in the table "The Captain" on page 97 differs from the ASI description on page 98: it's missing 14th level.
 
chumpinski
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Re: Alpha Feedback - Player's Guide Section 4 Classes & Feats

Tue 07 Sep 2021, 02:27

Would a burden (or Boon) change the maximum a player could raise a stat too? If a player could jack their dex (and accompanying bonus) by 2 beyond the limit using the Boon/Burden system... maybe the min/maxers would go for it.


Is the intention of Burdens to replace ASIs? Otherwise, there's no objective reason for players to take a "+2 bonus to an ability score and a negative effect" in exchange for "+2 to an ability score without the negative effect."
I agree here - if a player has the choice to take a +2 ASI for any ability score, there's no reason to risk taking the negative trait of a Burden feat for the same bonus (other than juicy RP). Unless the Burden bonus was made more enticing or you forced players to take feats at certain levels, players would just take the ASI instead (or at least my min-max players would).
 
Wistfuld
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Joined: Wed 08 Sep 2021, 17:23

Re: Alpha Feedback - Player's Guide Section 4 Classes & Feats

Wed 08 Sep 2021, 17:36

No, I don't believe the boons and burdens are meant to replace ASI's, but you could optionally take a boon or a burden, as you are making your character.
Okay, but that is not stated anywhere, and they are described as feats (which have already been defined as things you may take instead of an Ability Score Increase). If these are instead something you can take at character creation to flesh out your character (and gain some attribute benefits on the side), it is an error for this not to be explained. Further, if this is something you can take at level 1, what is the downside/cost of a boon? Do you need to take a Burden to offset a Boon?
And they really do add to the roleplaying experience.
Great, then there is no reason to limit them to when you would otherwise get an ASI.
I suggest trying this out by giving the character 1-3 boons and as many burdens (without the bonus effect from the boons) and test how that makes the character feel like.

Do you think this would this make your characters be too powerful, as each boon gives 1 point bonus to an ability? Is the negative effect from the burden enough to counter that?
Are you suggesting that the PC get the positive effects of the boon (including the +1), the negative effects of the burden, and then not getting the +2 attribute points that the burden gives? This would be an interesting setup, similar to what baseline Symbaroum does, and relatively close to balanced (there are some really crippling burdens and some relatively tame ones, same with the boons). I just don't see anything in the text that suggests something like this.
 
Barbarianbob
Posts: 42
Joined: Sat 16 Jan 2021, 02:16

Re: Alpha Feedback - Player's Guide Section 4 Classes & Feats

Thu 09 Sep 2021, 02:28

No, I don't believe the boons and burdens are meant to replace ASI's, but you could optionally take a boon or a burden, as you are making your character.
Okay, but that is not stated anywhere, and they are described as feats (which have already been defined as things you may take instead of an Ability Score Increase). If these are instead something you can take at character creation to flesh out your character (and gain some attribute benefits on the side), it is an error for this not to be explained. Further, if this is something you can take at level 1, what is the downside/cost of a boon? Do you need to take a Burden to offset a Boon?
And they really do add to the roleplaying experience.
Great, then there is no reason to limit them to when you would otherwise get an ASI.
I suggest trying this out by giving the character 1-3 boons and as many burdens (without the bonus effect from the boons) and test how that makes the character feel like.

Do you think this would this make your characters be too powerful, as each boon gives 1 point bonus to an ability? Is the negative effect from the burden enough to counter that?
Are you suggesting that the PC get the positive effects of the boon (including the +1), the negative effects of the burden, and then not getting the +2 attribute points that the burden gives? This would be an interesting setup, similar to what baseline Symbaroum does, and relatively close to balanced (there are some really crippling burdens and some relatively tame ones, same with the boons). I just don't see anything in the text that suggests something like this.
Just sounding off here as I have elsewhere on this forum, but I already do this in my homebrew, and I feel like this should be taken in to consideration by the Symbaroum team.

At first level, during character creation, you have an option to take a "burden". Then you roll randomly to see what burden you get (you don't get to select a burden, a burden is something that "happens to you". Something you learn to deal with). In exchange, you get 1 attribute point to spend wherever you like, as long as the total does not exceed 18 before racial modifiers. The burdens are a mixed lot, but I generally have them arranged to where there is a smaller chance to get one of the more "challenging" burdens and a greater chance to get one of the "more manageable" ones.

I truly think a 2 point bump is overpowered and, to make it worse, you get to pick the burden that has the attribute bump that benefits you the most. I believe this leans way to hard into a min/max mindset, and that is not what this setting should be about.

Maybe I'll post my burdens here as an example, as long as don't offend anyone that I may have appropriated ideas from. My burdens come from a lot of source from possiblly people on this site, as well as other gaming sites as a well as the rule for Symbaroum Zwiehander the D&D lingering injuries' rules and other sources.
 
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Jacob Rodgers
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Re: Alpha Feedback - Player's Guide Section 4 Classes & Feats

Thu 09 Sep 2021, 16:13

Let's make sure we keep these pinned threads for actual issues with the Alpha PDF. Alternative/homebrew rules are fantastic but need their own thread.
 
Ugglefar
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Re: Alpha Feedback - Player's Guide Section 4 Classes & Feats

Thu 09 Sep 2021, 16:29

Let's make sure we keep these pinned threads for actual issues with the Alpha PDF. Alternative/homebrew rules are fantastic but need their own thread.

Yeah, sorry. I didn't read the text explaining the information you wanted here posted by Mattias the first time I posted here.

If a text isn't necessary wrong, but I think it could be made more clear, should it be stated here or in a separate post?
 
Barbarianbob
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Re: Alpha Feedback - Player's Guide Section 4 Classes & Feats

Thu 09 Sep 2021, 19:43

Let's make sure we keep these pinned threads for actual issues with the Alpha PDF. Alternative/homebrew rules are fantastic but need their own thread.
Apologies. Got caught up in the lively conversation :D

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