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pagnabros
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My Personal List of Feedbacks/Suggestions

Thu 18 Jun 2020, 12:39

I’m still digging the new Ruins of Symbaroum document but as far as I can tell, there is extreme potential and way better design than the 5e team itself (and no, I’m not joking). I really wanted to put my input on the rule because I truly believe it could become an amazing project.

- I liked the simplicity of Corruption and Shadow rules, but I think that Shadow rules should be a little more integrated (in the original game system, Witch- Sight and Shadows honestly don’t feel so important, unless your GM is good with you and give you more info than just the color of a shadow and some good roleplaying opportunities).

- as samirvsmachine already said in another thread before mine, I think the rule that Hit Dice are depending on races instead of classes should be more specified and understandable, the same with the optional rule to use the class depending Hit Dice. Hit points tied to races I think could be a nice idea, but I also think that classes should still matter (a trained goblin warrior should be more resilient than a goblin mystic IMO). I think a great approach could be something akin to Pathfinder 2e, where Ancestries (races) give a fixed amount of bonus hit point (for example 4 hit point for goblin, 6 for humans and maybe 8 for ogres) while also adding hit point from your class Hit Dice.

- the new rest mechanics are simply amazing, really like them. I hope Hit Dice will be used as a regular “resource” and have a nice ebb & flow mechanic that synergize with class features akin to the Medicus class feature, for example a class feature for the Sorcerer Mystic approach in which you can trade Hit Die to empower your spells. Also, I think you should regain a little of Hit Dice at the end of a long rest, maybe equal to your proficiency or Constitution modifier.

- Races are fine and look balanced, but I think that the Ambrian Human racial feature Contacts should be more clear if you can using it for any factions or you should select only one (which I think make more sense). Also I think you should use a different term instead of “races”, since there is an ongoing cultural change happening right now in the rpg culture and I think it could be nice to show that you embrace the change.

- I like all the new Backgrounds, which are extremely thematic with Symbaroum, but I noticed that their “features” are more powerful and incisive in regards of the original D&D 5e Backgrounds, which have very little mechanics impact and are more for roleplaying/ribbon. Is it intentional?

- As per the Mystic class, I appreciate a lot the different spell list for each approach, I think it makes the subclasses feel all thematically and mechanically different, which is good. I hope there will be more spells and rituals converted from the original if no D&D equivalent could be found (similarly to what was already done with Holy Smoke).

- As per the Scoundrel class, I think that the Sixth Sense class feature at 6th level is a bit lame in comparison with the Monster Lore and Marksman class features and should be more incisive.

- As per the Warrior class, I like the Battle Wind more than the Second Wind class feature, but maybe it should be limited to “you gain temporary hit points until the end of your next turn” otherwise it would be extremely powerful. I appreciate the new Fighting Style, they all seem nice but I’m a little puzzled about the different mathematical formula for the Shield Fighting DC instead of the standard 8 + proficiency bonus + ability modifier. Is it intentional? Also, as samirvsmachine said before, I agree that Action Surge is a boring ability. Personally I would replace it with the Combat Superiority class feature from the Battle Master subclass, so that Warriors can be more diversify and have more options during combat. You can put Action Surge back at higher level. Finally, I dislike the Two-Handed Force for the Knight because it forces you to select a heavy weapon and I think that to be a design mistake. Bodyguard slightly suggest you to be a tank and equip a shield to be more efficient with it, but you can still use the class feature if you don’t. I think Two-Handed Force should work the same as Bodyguard or just be a Fighting Style/Feat instead.

- I think it could be really nice to insert more sidebars with the design intent behind certain rules, since it would help us to provide the right feedback. Also, if you are planning to go for 20 levels, I think it would be nice to insert an optional rule to limit the max level to 10 for more gritty campaign. I’m sure a lot of us will appreciate.

- A final free advice, just straight up ignore the challenge rating encounter building in the Dungeon Master Guide, they were designed with at least 6-8 medium-easy encounters between each long rest. It’s probably the worst weakness of the 5e edition system, because you can’t customize the pace of your adventures which tbh is not very ideal. Also, I think that Symbaroum work better with few combat encounters with higher average difficulty.

Sorry for the long post, but I truly hope this help!
 
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Jacob Rodgers
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Re: My Personal List of Feedbacks/Suggestions

Thu 18 Jun 2020, 16:19

I’m still digging the new Ruins of Symbaroum document but as far as I can tell, there is extreme potential and way better design than the 5e team itself (and no, I’m not joking). I really wanted to put my input on the rule because I truly believe it could become an amazing project.
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Thank you, that is extraordinarily high praise, we will try to live up to it.
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- I liked the simplicity of Corruption and Shadow rules, but I think that Shadow rules should be a little more integrated (in the original game system, Witch- Sight and Shadows honestly don’t feel so important, unless your GM is good with you and give you more info than just the color of a shadow and some good roleplaying opportunities).
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Excellent point.
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- as samirvsmachine already said in another thread before mine, I think the rule that Hit Dice are depending on races instead of classes should be more specified and understandable, the same with the optional rule to use the class depending Hit Dice. Hit points tied to races I think could be a nice idea, but I also think that classes should still matter (a trained goblin warrior should be more resilient than a goblin mystic IMO). I think a great approach could be something akin to Pathfinder 2e, where Ancestries (races) give a fixed amount of bonus hit point (for example 4 hit point for goblin, 6 for humans and maybe 8 for ogres) while also adding hit point from your class Hit Dice.
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Thanks. Page 35 (as mentioned in the other thread) does specify that racial Hit Dice are the preferred method. And that does inform some other features (see below). But we can definitely look at other ways to make progress.
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- the new rest mechanics are simply amazing, really like them. I hope Hit Dice will be used as a regular “resource” and have a nice ebb & flow mechanic that synergize with class features akin to the Medicus class feature, for example a class feature for the Sorcerer Mystic approach in which you can trade Hit Die to empower your spells. Also, I think you should regain a little of Hit Dice at the end of a long rest, maybe equal to your proficiency or Constitution modifier.
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Yep, you've keyed into an important resource and a way to distinguish the subclasses. We'll look at the balance of refreshing the Hit Dice... right now it's important to have an Explorer in the group, but other Approaches might also be able to help out in that area and its a nice lever to have.
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- Races are fine and look balanced, but I think that the Ambrian Human racial feature Contacts should be more clear if you can using it for any factions or you should select only one (which I think make more sense). Also I think you should use a different term instead of “races”, since there is an ongoing cultural change happening right now in the rpg culture and I think it could be nice to show that you embrace the change.
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Thanks for the feedback, these are areas where we may see changes.
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- I like all the new Backgrounds, which are extremely thematic with Symbaroum, but I noticed that their “features” are more powerful and incisive in regards of the original D&D 5e Backgrounds, which have very little mechanics impact and are more for roleplaying/ribbon. Is it intentional?
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I'll drop the group 'we' for this one... I think the goal with backgrounds both for the core game and Symbaroum are to have features that represent the backgrounds and can be situationally useful. I think the difference (for the most part) is that we were able to tie the backgrounds into the setting more tightly than the core rulebook, which has to support a variety of settings and playstyles.
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- As per the Mystic class, I appreciate a lot the different spell list for each approach, I think it makes the subclasses feel all thematically and mechanically different, which is good. I hope there will be more spells and rituals converted from the original if no D&D equivalent could be found (similarly to what was already done with Holy Smoke).
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Absolutely!
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- As per the Scoundrel class, I think that the Sixth Sense class feature at 6th level is a bit lame in comparison with the Monster Lore and Marksman class features and should be more incisive.
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Aha! We suspected this might be a sticking point. The interesting thing with the explorer is that there's actually a series of features on offer with those packages. So 'Sixth Sense' is a bit weak but the features that come online afterwards make up for it.
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- As per the Warrior class, I like the Battle Wind more than the Second Wind class feature, but maybe it should be limited to “you gain temporary hit points until the end of your next turn” otherwise it would be extremely powerful. I appreciate the new Fighting Style, they all seem nice but I’m a little puzzled about the different mathematical formula for the Shield Fighting DC instead of the standard 8 + proficiency bonus + ability modifier. Is it intentional? Also, as samirvsmachine said before, I agree that Action Surge is a boring ability. Personally I would replace it with the Combat Superiority class feature from the Battle Master subclass, so that Warriors can be more diversify and have more options during combat. You can put Action Surge back at higher level. Finally, I dislike the Two-Handed Force for the Knight because it forces you to select a heavy weapon and I think that to be a design mistake. Bodyguard slightly suggest you to be a tank and equip a shield to be more efficient with it, but you can still use the class feature if you don’t. I think Two-Handed Force should work the same as Bodyguard or just be a Fighting Style/Feat instead.
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Several things to look at here: Battle Wind is strong, but it also is great support for a Goblin Warrior so that their individually lower hit points aren't preventing them from being effective. And, of course, as levels go up, the percentage part of total HP that Battle Wind provides scales down.

We'll look at Shield Fighting, that might need a change. It was intentional, in that a lot of similar monster features use 10 + Strength for the DC but characters should be exceptional.

We'll continue to look at Action Surge. I think it's one of those things that are situational... it's not very exciting on paper, but when you can use to put down a foe before they get a chance to attack an ally that's making death saves, it's very clutch.

We'll look at the Knight package. Like you said Bodyguard gives you the similar ability with the same cost and just comes on a little later. And, of course, spending your reaction can be a big cost, especially if it prevents you from making a needed Opportunity Attack or from using Bodyguard to support another character (for example a squishy Scoundrel that is in melee range to use their Backstab.

But everything is flexible, so we'll see what happens
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- I think it could be really nice to insert more sidebars with the design intent behind certain rules, since it would help us to provide the right feedback. Also, if you are planning to go for 20 levels, I think it would be nice to insert an optional rule to limit the max level to 10 for more gritty campaign. I’m sure a lot of us will appreciate.
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As for the sidebars that gets to be tricky, what with the desire to include the fantastic art of Symbaroum and that the design principles are of interest to a select percentage of the overall audience.

A note about a level cap is certainly possible, though, of course, any GM could declare such a decision at any time and at any level.
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- A final free advice, just straight up ignore the challenge rating encounter building in the Dungeon Master Guide, they were designed with at least 6-8 medium-easy encounters between each long rest. It’s probably the worst weakness of the 5e edition system, because you can’t customize the pace of your adventures which tbh is not very ideal. Also, I think that Symbaroum work better with few combat encounters with higher average difficulty.
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We are quite familiar with the wonkiness of the 5e Challenge system, and we mention in the adventure that we're going for less fair fights on average anyways. But also bear in mind the new rest system. A long rest doesn't mean what it does in core 5e, so 5 minutes of fighting and then taking a long rest is considerably less attractive.
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Sorry for the long post, but I truly hope this help!
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Thank you for all the feedback. We really appreciate it.

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