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timbolton
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Thoughts on how Free League will get us into Moria

Fri 28 Jan 2022, 00:15

We know a Moria book/box is still coming, Francesco mentions it in a recent interview (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQYlKxWg22s @23m30s).

One thought is how will they approach sending the player characters there?

Before the fateful journey of the Fellowship into Moria during Fellowship of the Ring, we know of only three other trips into Moria – an ill-fated one by Balin in TA 2989, the other two are undated trips by Gandalf and Aragorn.

‘Good, Gimli!’ said Gandalf. ‘You encourage me. We will seek the hidden doors together. And we will come through. In the ruins of the Dwarves, a dwarf’s head will be less easy to bewilder than Elves or Men or Hobbits. Yet it will not be the first time that I have been to Moria. I sought there long for Thráin son of Thrór after he was lost. I passed through, and I came out again alive!’
‘I too once passed the Dimrill Gate,’ said Aragorn quietly; ‘but though I also came out again, the memory is very evil. I do not wish to enter Moria a second time.’
The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring, The Two Towers, The Return of the King (p. 297). HarperCollins Publishers. Kindle Edition.

We know Gandalf found Thráin in Dol Guldur in TA 2950, so his journey would have been prior to that. With that date and the fact Gandalf doesn’t mention any more trips into Moria in the quote above, we can rule out him as a guide to player characters.

But when did Aragorn visit Moria? Between TA 2957–80 Aragorn is of on his errantries and heads to both Rohan and Gondor. Perhaps it was during those? Aragorn states he entered Moria by the Dimrill Gate. In TA 2980 he meets Arwen in Lórien. Could it be around that time, whilst nearby, he went to Moria for an undisclosed reason? JRR Tolkien never explains why Aragorn went there or when.

The default setting for The One Ring roleplaying game 2nd Edition is TA 2965, fifteen years before Aragorn is nearby whilst in Lórien. But perhaps the Moria book/set will take us there to assist Aragorn in whatever he was doing when entering Dimrill Gate only to return with a memory of evil.

Balin enters Moria in TA 2989, twenty-four years after the default setting. We know his journey is ill-fated, but it is only when the Fellowship enter Moria that his death and the fate of the Dwarven expedition is known. I don’t think that would fit as a lead into Moria for player characters.

I think the Aragorn option is a great one, involving the player characters in his errantries (or perhaps the close of them) – something Cubicle 7 originally had in mind for one of their original three main sets.

Gareth Hanrahan was due to write the Moria set for Cubicle 7, so I assume he is still onboard for the Free League product.

Whatever happens, I am looking forward to finding out more about the Moria of TOR 2nd Edition.

Further reading
Two blogs were helpful in writing this, each exploring the possible journeys of Aragorn and Gandalf into Moria.

https://middle-earth.xenite.org/why-did ... -and-when/
https://sweatingtomordor.wordpress.com/ ... ugh-moria/

Some key dates from The Lord of the Rings

The Third Age

2957–80 Aragorn undertakes his great journeys and errantries. As Thorongil he serves in disguise both Thengel of Rohan and Ecthelion II of Gondor.
The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring, The Two Towers, The Return of the King (pp. 1089-1090). HarperCollins Publishers. Kindle Edition.


2980 Aragorn enters Lórien, and there meets again Arwen Undómiel. Aragorn gives her the ring of Barahir, and they plight their troth upon the hill of Cerin Amroth.
The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring, The Two Towers, The Return of the King (p. 1090). HarperCollins Publishers. Kindle Edition.


2989 Balin leaves Erebor and enters Moria.
The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring, The Two Towers, The Return of the King (p. 1090). HarperCollins Publishers. Kindle Edition.

Fun fact
Whilst checking through The Lord of the Rings, I rediscovered this awesome show of support from Aragorn to Gandalf whilst they were lost in Moria:

‘He is surer of finding the way home in a blind night than the cats of Queen Berúthiel.’
The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring, The Two Towers, The Return of the King (p. 311). HarperCollins Publishers. Kindle Edition.
"I am a servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the flame of Anor. You cannot pass."
 
Asgo
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Re: Thoughts on how Free League will get us into Moria

Fri 28 Jan 2022, 01:20

With the Moria sourcebook, I personally hope for a setting surrounding Balin's attempt to reclaim Moria.

While ultimately unsuccessful, it thrived for five years in an overall time span that would fit the setting with a degree of progression.

I think the expedition style and having a small outpost style colony offers more than just as a dungeon location as source book content.
It also allows a tie in with the existing patron of Balin.
Going by the few statements surrounding it, king Dain had to be convinced to support or at least allow it. That would lead to nice story hooks of scouting and diplomacy as precursor to the actual expedition in service of Balin and might allow the setting element to start a few years earlier depending where you want to hook in.
 
gyrovague
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Re: Thoughts on how Free League will get us into Moria

Fri 28 Jan 2022, 17:43

Here's the thing: we all know that, canonically, there are no other known forays into Moria in that time period. Not that nobody went into Moria, but that Gandalf, Elrond, the Dwarves, etc. never heard about it. Which means that if anybody does go into Moria, it would break canon if any word of their adventures got out. So clearly the only viable story arc for this adventure...to protect the integrity of the setting...is going to have to be TPK.

Players: "Wait, no, please! Our characters won't say a word to nobodeez! They'll never knowz we wuz here! Evah!"
LM: "Hmmm...no, can't take that chance. Sorry."

To quote Hicks (from Aliens), "It's the only way to be sure."
 
TherorSilverhelm
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Joined: Wed 30 Jun 2021, 15:37

Re: Thoughts on how Free League will get us into Moria

Fri 28 Jan 2022, 18:31

Here's the thing: we all know that, canonically, there are no other known forays into Moria in that time period. Not that nobody went into Moria, but that Gandalf, Elrond, the Dwarves, etc. never heard about it. Which means that if anybody does go into Moria, it would break canon if any word of their adventures got out. So clearly the only viable story arc for this adventure...to protect the integrity of the setting...is going to have to be TPK.
Would this mean that Durin's bane exists solely to protect canon?
 
gyrovague
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Joined: Tue 28 Apr 2020, 16:52

Re: Thoughts on how Free League will get us into Moria

Fri 28 Jan 2022, 19:19

Would this mean that Durin's bane exists solely to protect canon?
Maybe, but in a way similar to how Bilbo is 'meant' to find the Ring.

As Morgoth might say, “Surely you don’t disbelieve the prophecies, because you had a hand in bringing them about yourself? You don’t really suppose, do you, that all your ravages and depredations were managed by mere might, just for your sole benefit? You are a very fine Maiar, Mr. Balrog, and I am very fond of you; but you are only quite a little fellow in a wide world after all!”
 
Byrax
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Location: Mythic North

Re: Thoughts on how Free League will get us into Moria

Fri 28 Jan 2022, 20:41

Surely, related scouting missions and other minor incursion must have taken place before Balin tried to resettle Moria.
 
Asgo
Posts: 143
Joined: Tue 29 Jun 2021, 12:18

Re: Thoughts on how Free League will get us into Moria

Fri 28 Jan 2022, 21:13

Here's the thing: we all know that, canonically, there are no other known forays into Moria in that time period. Not that nobody went into Moria, but that Gandalf, Elrond, the Dwarves, etc. never heard about it. Which means that if anybody does go into Moria, it would break canon if any word of their adventures got out. So clearly the only viable story arc for this adventure...to protect the integrity of the setting...is going to have to be TPK.
Would this mean that Durin's bane exists solely to protect canon?
that is technically a misunderstanding.
Durin's Bane isn't the Balrog - Durin's Bane is the name of hottest club in all of Middleearth - members only.
the Balrog is just the bouncer and scare crow basically to shoo away random travellers.
The setup with ruins and dark halls is more or less just a party theme, the Balrog can light the way when invited guests arrive.
Running a night club turned out way more profitable for Balin than digging for gold or mithril - let the people bring you their money...
 
Otaku-sempai
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Joined: Wed 15 Apr 2020, 15:35
Location: Western New York

Re: Thoughts on how Free League will get us into Moria

Fri 28 Jan 2022, 22:04

Surely, related scouting missions and other minor incursion must have taken place before Balin tried to resettle Moria.
.
In addition, there are the five years of Balin's colony where messages were being sent back and forth between Moria and Erebor. Some adventures could take place during that relatively brief period.
#FideltyToTolkien
 
Asgo
Posts: 143
Joined: Tue 29 Jun 2021, 12:18

Re: Thoughts on how Free League will get us into Moria

Sat 29 Jan 2022, 01:27

plus, nothing prevents them from covering the "empty" phase before Balin's colony and the colony phase itself.
A large body of the information would be essentially the same and it offers a number of variation of content.

rule-wise it would offer the opportunity to create colony/outpost/settlement building rules on an abstraction level of journeys - if that would be of general interest, I don't know. :)
 
gyrovague
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Joined: Tue 28 Apr 2020, 16:52

Re: Thoughts on how Free League will get us into Moria

Sat 29 Jan 2022, 09:13

rule-wise it would offer the opportunity to create colony/outpost/settlement building rules on an abstraction level of journeys - if that would be of general interest, I don't know. :)
My hope for Moria is that it is *not* about helping Balin and mapping/settling Moria, but that it involves stumbling around in the dark, hungry, lost, and terrified.

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