BHF70
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Joined: Tue 25 Jan 2022, 18:10

Spending Hope for an Attribute bonus?

Tue 25 Jan 2022, 18:13

While 2nd edition looks great so far, I really liked the 1st edition option to spend Hope to add the attribute rating to a skill roll. If I house-rule this with 2nd edition, will this break the math?
 
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Harlath
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Joined: Sun 19 Jul 2020, 10:40

Re: Spending Hope for an Attribute bonus?

Tue 25 Jan 2022, 19:03

Should work pretty well. Various thoughts:

- Would you spend hope on an attribute bonus before (2e style) or after (1e style) the roll?
- Will probably make the game a little easier (as attribute bonuses will be higher than typical d6 result, albeit you lose the upside of a great success/extraordinary success from a 6), as Hope will now be a static value, particularly if spent after the roll is made (1e style).
- We'll need to think of something to do with 2e's "Inspired", which turns Hope in to 2d in 2e, rather than the standard 1e. Maybe Inspired boosts you when you spend hope and increases the Attribute bonus by another +X?
- If hope is spent after the roll, you could make it refresh less frequently, albeit that makes Heart a little weaker, as Heart in 2e sets your Hope refresh rate. Could half the rate (keeps Heart important), make the bonus always based on Heart etc?
- You'll lose some of the use/cool upside of Hope, particularly at higher Skill Levels or Wisdom/Valour ratings. In 2e, hope spending can get you extra 6s (to spend on special success results, to reduce fatigue on travel rolls, extra damage/special effects in combat, extra successes in a council/skill endeavour etc). If you're passing rolls anyway due to high dice pools, you might want extra dice from Hope as extra d6 rather than needing a flat attribute boost.

Broadly, 2e's hope is different to 1e: less reliable (now a d6 before the roll rather than a static bonus post roll) but more frequently refreshed and with more upside (you can get a 6 with an extra dice to spend on cool things, static bonus can't do that. You might get the 6 you need to turn an ordinary hit in to a piercing blow etc).
 
BHF70
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Joined: Tue 25 Jan 2022, 18:10

Re: Spending Hope for an Attribute bonus?

Tue 25 Jan 2022, 20:26

Thanks for the info!

My thought was to still allow Hope spend to add 1d for Protection rolls. For inspiration, that was going to be more situational, usually as a reward for good roleplaying. The character would get a 1d bonus without having to spend Hope.

Maybe give players a choice? Spend before the roll for +1d or after the roll for half the attribute. I always like to give players more choices.
 
gyrovague
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Re: Spending Hope for an Attribute bonus?

Tue 25 Jan 2022, 23:45

If you're talking about fully replicating 1e and adding the attribute bonus after the roll, the thing to bear in mind is that this makes Hope expenditures 100% efficient. That is, each point of Hope is guaranteed (unless you are REALLY bad at arithmetic) to turn a failure into a success. With the 2e mechanic, the conversion percentage varies but is around 25% if not inspired, and 50% if you are inspired. As one would expect, the authors consequently made Hope much easier to regenerate. So if you combine 1e rules for expenditure, with 2e rules for regeneration, you're giving the players the best of both worlds.

I still don't think that's going to "break" the game, but it's going to lead to a lot of extra successes.
 
Dunheved
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Location: UK

Re: Spending Hope for an Attribute bonus?

Sat 29 Jan 2022, 11:34

Gyrovague's points are true.
Considering this I have offered to my players the chance to spend hope AFTER a roll (When you know you need it).
But the payback is
1. Unlike 1e, you still get to roll 1d6 (or 2d6 inspired) as the bonus instead of attribute level, BUT
2. Any '6' rolled on Hope dice spent in this way does NOT give any extra Success.


Tbf I could change my rule to say that "Hope spent After a Roll" gives +(Attribute level) to be added to the score, instead of rolling any dice, and then no extra tengwar could appear, nor would Inspiration be any advantage.

Swings and Roundabouts....

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