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Red Haired Thor
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Town and Fort Building Homebrew

Sun 21 Nov 2021, 03:45

Hello,

I'm looking for feedback on a system I've put together for an upcoming game. I've run 1e for a long time and a had a lot of house rules and homemade systems, like the Holding rules, but I wanted to try something different for 2e since I'm running for a smaller group (2 players compared to 5) and in Eriador instead of Wilderland. While I haven't played 2e yet, I'm not TOO worried about the numbers as I (and any LM who wants to use this. Feel free!) can always adjust them, but I'm interested in what people think.

Town and Fort Building in 2e.

The idea was to give the players something they could spend their Treasure on besides hoarding it to raise their Standard of Living. I'm hoping others might be able to look at it and find issues that I might have missed or problems with how it is structured.

So, please, take a look and let me know what you think!
 
Dunheved
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Re: Town and Fort Building Homebrew

Sun 21 Nov 2021, 12:51

I was very impressed when I read through all this. It's a great collection of ideas and there are lots of clever additions at each level of Valour or Wisdom described. As importantly, it has a coherent feel. Thank you.

I really like the parallel to the Valour / Wisdom rating. And as someone who rarely used the Holding system in TOR 1e (except as a means to avoid bookkeeping with the rules on Standing), I feel inspired to examine that system again, with these rules as a guide.

If any of this next bit comes across as negative, my apologies. I do not intend or desire to suggest any fault with what is written: instead I am just (quickly) reflecting on how I might apply it in the context of my own LM activity. If anything, it is a further compliment to your work in presenting this that I want to do this, so thank you again.

1. I think I might alter the 20 hex guide line for items like the Herepath, to be a maximum of 3 or 4 days travel away instead. Makes it more like the journey from Dale to Laketown, or from Hobbiton to Bree.
2. Would you consider that having both a Tannery and a Blacksmith in Wisdom buildings would permit all militia NPC to have leather armour?
3. Clarification. When raising the protection of the gatehouse is it +1 or +1d?
4. I am completely unsure about all the Treasure needed to do this. One initial thought might be that at each tier there would naturally arise some income - rather like the old Holdings rules. Of course inherent income attracts its own problems and opportunities. (Bandits, merchants and mercenaries. )


Culture specific buildings would seem a further angle to explore.
More specialist buildings. Library. Hospital. Siegeworks. Harbours.
Also Culture specific costs to development (e.g. dwarf settlements being cheaper or faster to develop in Valour; elf buildings for Wisdom).


And though many people have expressed their support for streamlined rules, I love additional optional stuff. It's a framework, and one which you have tried to fit in with established ideas.

Helping assist the creation of a town in the wilderness of Eriador - New Tharbad - seems the core of a campaign in itself. And these rules would give an easy format to plan for the re colonisation of Moria too.
 
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Harlath
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Re: Town and Fort Building Homebrew

Sun 21 Nov 2021, 16:35

Similar to Dunheved, I think this does a good job of building on existing mechanics. Doing things like boosting the Fellowship pool is a great way to use existing mechanics and add depth without adding much complexity.

- Might trim the distance of the quasi roads to 10-15 hexes depending on likely locations and tastes.
- Like the use of Treasure for temporary Useful items/load reduction. Uses up treasure without adding complexity.
- Like the option to boost the Fellowship pool - mechanically useful, easily slots in to existing mechanics..
- Same goes for things like treating Event rolls as Borderlands - builds on similar stuff already in the rulebooks.
- Limited uses of the two Miruvor options from the Rivendell book are another good way to reuse existing mechanics in a balanced fashion? Perhaps d6 uses?
 
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Red Haired Thor
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Re: Town and Fort Building Homebrew

Sun 21 Nov 2021, 19:11

Thank you both!

I certainly didn't think your words to be negative, Dunheved! And you both raise some good points.

I probably can trim the early roads down a bit, and then have something like the stone road be longer as an upgrade. I also like the idea of allowing the blacksmith and tannery to do something like you were suggesting for a militia. As I mentioned in the document, I will likely have certain adventures that take place in or around a fort/town the players are building, and I was certainly going to have the townsfolk assist. I did not want to make it seem like you had to find a set of mass combat rules or something to make use of those two buildings, but I think if I just describe it in a narrative way, it should work. Thanks!

For the gatehouse, I wanted the stronger gatehouse to be rolling 3 dice instead of 2, so it was +1d. It is still unfavored, so it can still get unlucky, but you shouldn't be able to just break down a gate. LMs can obviously introduce things like battering rams for enemies or allow like a troll's club to have called shots against gates as they feel is welcome.

The treasure values were more there for ratio, rather than for a set or balanced approach. Reading the core book, it seemed like the LM was encouraged to give more treasure in 2e than they necessarily were in 1e. Do you think halving the values would be a better pace for it?
 
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Red Haired Thor
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Re: Town and Fort Building Homebrew

Mon 22 Nov 2021, 08:27

So I received similar feedback of including a way for the Town/Fort to generate its own income to alleviate the cost of the Treasure. After coming up with a few different ways to generate a value, I think the cleanest and most consistent is a variant on the 1e's Holding rules, even if it does add something that isn't truly present in 2e. I think the idea of the rating being better the lower it is is simple enough in practice that most can grasp it though and...ultimately all of this is optional anyway!

But here is what I have. The biggest change from the old holding rules is the way the rating goes down (through buildings) and that there is a way to double and triple the amount of money generated.

Town Rating
In addition to its Treasury Rating and its Valour and Wisdom, a town has one more rating that players must consider, and that is the Town Rating. Every town and fort starts with a Town Rating of 9. By building certain buildings, the players can lower the Town Rating down to a minimum of 1. Similar to Target Numbers, a lower Town Rating is preferable to a higher one.
Yule Time
Over the year, a town will keep itself running through taxes gathered and income through trade. Most of the time, the town or fort makes enough each year to pay for its basic maintenance and upkeep. Occasionally, it produces more Treasure on its own, which is added directly to the town’s Treasury Rating.

At the end of the Yule Fellowship Phase, make a roll using the Feat Die and a number of success dice equal to the higher of the town’s Wisdom or Valour.

If the number rolled on the Feat die is lower than or equals the Town Rating, then the town produced only enough income to pay for its own upkeep but did not generate any additional Treasure.
If the number rolled on the Feat die is greater than the Target Number, then the difference between the roll result and the Target Number is added to the Treasury.
If a single Success icon was scored, then the amount of Treasure being added is doubled. If two or more Success icons were scored, then the amount of Treasure being added is tripled.

If the roll results in a Image rune being rolled, then good fortune strikes the town. No extra treasure is gained, but the Loremaster is encouraged to do something rewarding for the players. Perhaps construction on a building is hastened or an important or useful character moves into the town. Perhaps there is something good that occurs during the next Adventuring Phase that year.

Conversely, if the roll results in an Image, then something misfortunate occurs in the town. Perhaps there is a fire and some of the buildings are damaged or bandits have moved into the area drawn by rumors of the town’s success. If the player-heroes do not take action to address this matter, then it may grow worse in the following year.

----------

I think I will also play with the idea of buildings that allow you to do different things with the success die results (if they are a 6) on this roll, like if you roll a 6 you can instead add +2 to the result of the Feat Die. Or maybe that will be a default option, similar to the way you can spend it on combat actions. I haven't decided so for now it remains in the Workshop section of the sheet.
 
Dunheved
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Re: Town and Fort Building Homebrew

Mon 22 Nov 2021, 10:37

Thanks again for triggering this thread RHT.
I was sketching out the idea that Wisdom in a town generates income, while Valour is a civil cost. And have a choice of two simple formulae. Wisdom rating = W, Valour rating = V
Net Treasure per year = (W - V) x 1d6. Roll at start of Yule.
Net Treasure per year = Wd6 - Vd6. Roll at start of Yule.

This assumes military outposts are a drain on the economy, and cultural investment extends economic activity.
1. A town in debt cannot fund further building that year.
2. Two successive years of debt lower the Valour rating of a town by one level.

3. To make expansion a more interesting decision, high Valour towns (4+ maybe) make a region safer. i.e. Dark lands become merely Wild lands for 1 hex around the town, or Wild lands become Border lands for 1 hex.
4. And to dissuade unprotected growth ? Roll (1d6 + V - W) at END of Yule. If negative, Shadow forces will raid the town in the first Adventuring phase. Here comes Smaug!!

This is my simple idea because I didn't enjoy the old Holdings rules much. I don't think it is any better than an amended Holdings, merely an alternative, if it's any use.
 
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Aiden Harrison
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Re: Town and Fort Building Homebrew

Mon 22 Nov 2021, 17:48

This is good stuff.

Here a few ideas/suggestions.

A settlement or fort needs a reliable water source. You should consider fitting digging a well an important step in developing such a place.

The same could be said for food sources - consider fish ponds, bee hives, livestock pens, smokehouse etc

A Brewery/Vintner might be a good addition as a step in a lower tier town.

A Baker would make sense as well to go with the Mill.

A Butcher would make sense as well.

A bathhouse might be a good addition for the Wisdom side of things.

Trade Workshops such as a weaver, a potter, a tailor, a cooper and or carpenter would be a good additions.

A fletcher/bowyer could make a good Valour addition.

Kennels or falconry mew could also make good additions to go with the hunting lodge.

Just a few ideas for expansion of the idea.
 
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dpeters911
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Re: Town and Fort Building Homebrew

Sat 27 Nov 2021, 19:54

This is lovely.
  • Would you liked it prepared in a layout similar to the books?
  • How about restoring old sites like in old Arnor or Dwarven ones like Kazad-dum?
 
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Red Haired Thor
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Re: Town and Fort Building Homebrew

Sat 27 Nov 2021, 22:53

I definitely would like to do that presentation style! I'm just not really sure where to get those resources.

Also I was trying to think of ways to represent restoring old things. I think the core concept of the town ratings/attributes work well for that project as well, but you might need different buildings. I could probably add a side bar to sort of explain that.
 
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dpeters911
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Re: Town and Fort Building Homebrew

Sun 05 Dec 2021, 19:34

Here you. Lmk what you think. Were apiaries missing resources?
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xusDse ... p=drivesdk

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