Ghorin
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Ranged weapons : no distances in yards

Wed 13 Oct 2021, 22:35

In 1st edition, there is a table giving distances in yards for short, medium and long ranges of ranged weapons.
In 2nd edition, I don't find this. Is it an oversight (that we could correct by taking the distances table from 1e) or is it deliberate ?
Thanks
 
Asgo
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Re: Ranged weapons : no distances in yards

Wed 13 Oct 2021, 23:09

interesting, skimming through 1ed the only real use the range table got seems to be as information on *what* the in world range of the weapon is and where it can be used.

The only other mention of range I could find was in combat complications, where you basically just declare the range as the narrative for the complication.
But somehow that sounds like a conflict or a backwards definition.
I mean either the LM defined the range in numeric terms, for example "the line of orcs is 30 yards in front of you", or he left it abstract.
In the abstract, sure you can use the complication as narrative for the TN modifier, but it doesn't distinguish between weapon types ie that part of the table is superfluous.
For the differences in short, medium and long range from the yards table to mean anything, you would need a numeric distance to matter at all.


I would guess they intentionally left out the distance table to keep things abstract.
Without that table you can simply take the complications as is and work the narrative from there. Sure, you could use the old table as an idea what to tell narratively but really without mechanical consequences or conflicts, e..g, you choose longe range as complication then you could use 20+ yards as meter-stick to place the opponent if the char uses a thrown weapon. (of course then you might wanna avoid long range as complication if you have another char with a great bow on the same target ;) )
That would be my read, unless I missed something.
 
Ghorin
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Re: Ranged weapons : no distances in yards

Wed 13 Oct 2021, 23:32

Thanks @asgo for this interesting answer.
In fact for my own game, i don't need and use those distances in TOR 1st edition and I don't intend to use them in 2nd edition. I'm very fine wiht the abstract way which I use as loremaster.
I was asking the question because I'm in the team that work for the TOR2E system for Foundry VTT and maybe there are groups who prefer using tactical map with distances.
Now I also think that, as you say in your last comment, that they intentionally left out the distances to keep things abstract, that's the way of that system and I like it that way.
 
Asgo
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Re: Ranged weapons : no distances in yards

Thu 14 Oct 2021, 00:51

I am not really used to such abstracted combat, but it has it advantages and opportunities.
The most interesting one is the larger freedom in terms of map usage.
While you don't have to use maps, if you do decide to use them however, you are not bound to scale for example and can depict larger areas that actually offer more tactical choices than a "tactical map" with a fixed world to map scale. Something that becomes in particular handy when dealing with ranged weapons or when throwing together a map without hard scale either digitally or on paper.
 
gull2112
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Re: Ranged weapons : no distances in yards

Thu 14 Oct 2021, 01:12

I was wondering about that, as well. However, I find it just doesn't come up. We are really enjoying the narrative aspect of the system, and the range modifier thing just doesn't come up. We typically will do a turn of ranged and then the melee dominant PH's will want to get stuck in and there you have it. I suppose you could subtract a die at long range and add a die at close range, but then everyone would tend to hold their fire until close range. The simple three layer combat range with missile troops in back seems good enough.

Tolkien never mentioned specific ranges in his text, so by textual inference we shouldn't either! ;)
 
Dunheved
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Re: Ranged weapons : no distances in yards

Thu 14 Oct 2021, 08:34

I suspect that a large majority of gamers in TOR don't worry at all about numbers for range etc. Unless I were a javelin thrower or an archer myself (I have done archery a bit), I cannot see it bothering me at all.
The on-line games I have seen, the source books, and most fan adventures rarely discuss distances, and I cannot remember anytime it has been vital. (The length of a piece of rope, and the height of a cliff seems more pertinent to me - who makes a rule about that! )

I would oppose such numbers anyway: People have different strength as well as different skills, and most targets are moving anyway, so need to be quite close else they have time to step out of the way of the projectile. It needs abstraction.
 
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eternalsage
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Re: Ranged weapons : no distances in yards

Thu 14 Oct 2021, 22:11

Not saying anyone is playing wrong, but tbh I've never found ranges useful in other games either. One more thing to track that never has an impact
“It is useless to meet revenge with revenge; it will heal nothing.” - Frodo Baggins, Return of the King

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