Mythicos
Posts: 124
Joined: Tue 16 Jun 2020, 03:46

Re: The Eye of Mordor same issues as in Alpha

Tue 12 Oct 2021, 18:44

If the Fellowship's composition makes it so that baseline Eye score is equal or higher than the region's threshold, it simply means that the Fellowship can't/won't be concealed from Mordor's agents.

Period.

Nazgûls ARE on your trail. Crebains ARE circling the sky looking to spot you. Orc patrols ARE actively looking for you when you cross their region.

You might disagree with the implications of the RAW, but it doesn't mean they're wrong/mistaken/badly written.

After all, there is a reason why Glorfindel/Elrahan/Elrohir and any number of other powerful Elves were not a part of the Fellowship of the Ring: they had to stay concealed.
 
gyrovague
Posts: 591
Joined: Tue 28 Apr 2020, 16:52

Re: The Eye of Mordor same issues as in Alpha

Tue 12 Oct 2021, 20:51

If the Fellowship's composition makes it so that baseline Eye score is equal or higher than the region's threshold, it simply means that the Fellowship can't/won't be concealed from Mordor's agents.

Period.

Nazgûls ARE on your trail. Crebains ARE circling the sky looking to spot you. Orc patrols ARE actively looking for you when you cross their region.

You might disagree with the implications of the RAW, but it doesn't mean they're wrong/mistaken/badly written.

After all, there is a reason why Glorfindel/Elrahan/Elrohir and any number of other powerful Elves were not a part of the Fellowship of the Ring: they had to stay concealed.
Yes, I agree with this interpretation for the most part. And I think it sounds fun. (The last thing I’d want to do at this point is retire my character, just as things get really exciting.)

However, if this is the design intent then I wish there were a paragraph or side bar to address/clarify it.
 
Davi
Posts: 78
Joined: Mon 15 Feb 2021, 04:16

Re: The Eye of Mordor same issues as in Alpha

Wed 13 Oct 2021, 05:16

If so, this is kind of the dumbest rule ever. They could just remove all the tracking, and there are lots of tracking on this rule.

They could just state that powerful character should have powerful enemies, and once the group made a name for themselves, it would be heard not only by potencial allies but also their enemies, which would hunt them and lay traps on them and so on, which is obvious anyway.

On the original post alerting the issues on alpha there were a couple of really cool ideas on how to improve the rule, specially on simplifying it. Like, instead of different threshold have only one threshold and everything else adds on the eye. Also, instead of having the eye passively increase by most part, have it more linked to the player actions, and finally instead of having elves and dunadian automatically increase starting hunt, have it increase on the ocasion when they reveal themselves for some reason, like an ranger that shows his Dunadain heritage bg using a virtude of the Dunadain or brands his signature weapon.
 
Oktoras
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue 29 Dec 2020, 14:42

Re: The Eye of Mordor same issues as in Alpha

Wed 13 Oct 2021, 20:15

For me, this looks clear. If Eye value breaks score with its default value, revealation happens every time someone rolld Eye of Mordor (outside of combat).
 
Davi
Posts: 78
Joined: Mon 15 Feb 2021, 04:16

Re: The Eye of Mordor same issues as in Alpha

Wed 13 Oct 2021, 20:27

I don't think the OP is stating the rule is unclear, just that it is bad design. If all sessions will have a "revelation", what is the point of tracking.

The rules also has many unnecessary tracking. The region the fellowship is, the starting eye value, the different ways to increase the eye value and moving threshold.

By having a fixed threshold (like a fixed TN), and having eye increasing on every display of power (magical or otherwise) and eye rolled would make the rule easier to track and more fun to play around. The rule also feels like it was just copied and pasted from last edition worth little care for the design philosophy of 2e.

For me they tried to make many as possible target numbers fixed (edge, TNs), I like this because it is easier to apply rules, instead of having different figures moving, one is fixed (like TN) and you vary the number of dice being rolled. I have no idea why the game designers did not feel to use the same approach for this rule.
 
tolKeen
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue 20 Jul 2021, 21:30

Re: The Eye of Mordor same issues as in Alpha

Wed 13 Oct 2021, 22:30

For me, this looks clear. If Eye value breaks score with its default value, revealation happens every time someone rolld Eye of Mordor (outside of combat).
This seems like a pretty good take to me.

Could you just take it, that if you don’t like the idea that any high-level party is always being hunted, that the first time the eye awareness is **raised** a revelation episode is triggered?

This would be pretty close to RAW. And would feel thematic. If the company:
- rolls an eye
- uses magic blatantly
- gains a reputation (read plot event or Royalty Revealed, famous weapon use, etc)

…revelation is triggered (but doesn’t need to happen immediately or directly).

But when the episode is resolved, reset still occurs.

In the outside chance the reset sets the score to being above the hunt threshold, I don’t think the rules intend for you to trigger—reset—trigger ad infinitum. But the players have minimal room for mistakes—i.e. the first time the score is raised they are revealed.

This would seem to prompt thematic strategies from the players.
- avoiding dark lands etc
- mitigation options suggested in the rules
- splitting the party

Would be nice, agreed if the rules were a little more explicit. But I think with a generous reading rather than being super literal they actually kind of anticipate and deal with this scenario. They are meant to be only a jumping off point to some degree as well, any campaign wide rule like this always needs some interpretation and modification.
 
Mythicos
Posts: 124
Joined: Tue 16 Jun 2020, 03:46

Re: The Eye of Mordor same issues as in Alpha

Thu 14 Oct 2021, 04:30


If so, this is kind of the dumbest rule ever.

</snip>
:roll:
 
gyrovague
Posts: 591
Joined: Tue 28 Apr 2020, 16:52

Re: The Eye of Mordor same issues as in Alpha

Thu 14 Oct 2021, 05:27

On the original post alerting the issues on alpha there were a couple of really cool ideas on how to improve the rule, specially on simplifying it. Like, instead of different threshold have only one threshold and everything else adds on the eye. Also, instead of having the eye passively increase by most part, have it more linked to the player actions, and finally instead of having elves and dunadian automatically increase starting hunt, have it increase on the ocasion when they reveal themselves for some reason, like an ranger that shows his Dunadain heritage bg using a virtude of the Dunadain or brands his signature weapon.
Also, it would be nice to have some options to counteract Eye Awareness. It seems odd that a company that is worried about Eye Awareness can't make any decisions to lessen the risk. (And, no, I'm not really counting "leave your magic sword at home" and "avoid rolling dice at all costs"). There should be a way to travel, for example, that reduces Eye Awareness but at the cost of increasing other problems/risks. Or a way of interacting with NPCs that does the same.

I dunno. I don't have the specifics figured out. But a party with high starting Eye Awareness has no incentive to behave any differently from a party with a low score. That feels like a missed opportunity.
 
Dunheved
Posts: 494
Joined: Wed 11 Mar 2020, 02:07
Location: UK

Re: The Eye of Mordor same issues as in Alpha

Thu 14 Oct 2021, 08:21

Good point. If the general consensus is that we can see that this rule is unsatisfactory, and will start to break as described in the OP and later, then ways to accomodate the RAW should be described. If so, then my next question is.....
What can a Company (given that it is aware it is being Hunted?) narrate to improve their chances against the Eye of Mordor?
I break my thoughts into two paths.

A. What sorts of activities might give the Company a way of arguing down the Hunt Score?
B. How might more rolls qualify for being Favoured, and so heavily reduce the chances of scoring an Eye to trigger a revelation anyway?

A. This is about active Concealment versus being Revealed. If the Company present a case to the LM that they are doing the opposite to a 'forced march' , i.e. taking extra time and effort to avoid being witnessed? If the Company do not light fires when resting? If they go around settlements by a decent margin? If they separate into smaller parties and only arrange some common check points on their journey? I suggest that these might all be considered to reduce the Score by some value ( 1 to 3 perhaps). Splitting the party automatically creates two much lower Hunt scores of course, and both groups might need their own coll3ctonmof rolls, so it's not automatically a good plan. (There will be other ideas I am sure)

B. If the party considers what they will be doing most of (Journey, Combat, Council/Encounter) for the following adventure phase. They might reasonably develop virtues in the preceding fellowship phase or plan how they might exploit the Distinctive Features they already have. (Classic piece of meta gaming, but not as bad as " I leave Glamdring behind, because I can't find the switch to turn off the blue light feature, and I'm going into Moria.")

I read this back, and does it seem that I am suggesting pre-narration to offset where this rule starts to break?
 
Nolmir
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu 01 Jul 2021, 22:45

Re: The Eye of Mordor same issues as in Alpha

Thu 14 Oct 2021, 13:06

On pg. 172, the hunt modifiers table lists examples of things the players can do to increase the hunt threshold (travel under false names, take seldom used paths, etc.), so I don't think you need to create houserules in order for heroes to take steps to avoid the Eye.

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