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eternalsage
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Re: One Rule to bind them.

Wed 15 Sep 2021, 17:33

Even then their stats are only useful for a few rounds of combat.
“It is useless to meet revenge with revenge; it will heal nothing.” - Frodo Baggins, Return of the King
 
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Asrath
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Re: One Rule to bind them.

Thu 16 Sep 2021, 19:17

The lifespan of an enemy is measured in rounds, and they often have less hate overall than the player's have hope. So not letting them spend hate for their special abilities as the text says will severely weaken them when imo combat tends to favour the player's anyway. And as stated an enemy can spend hate before they roll to gain extra dice. LM characters and enemies are not meant to work as characters. So it is balanced, and fair. Since monsters get less resources overall.
Right. Monsters also normally have less Hate points than heroes have Hope points. So I’d say they should be able to spend them after a roll.
 
Dunheved
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Re: One Rule to bind them.

Sat 18 Sep 2021, 11:31

Interesting views, so thanks for those.
Hope I have not missed anything, but to my reading, the comments delivered are grouped into (a) thats the RAW, (b) adversaries are feebler than heroes, so need some help, and Hate is too scarce to burn.
Is that fair ?

When Old Hope had the magical element of being applied AFTER the roll, it was consistent with many of the applicatiins of Old Hate. Part of the unreality/mystique of TOR1e Middle Earth was the ability to add these effects when you needed them, and only when they made a difference too. Completely illogical of course, tantamount to reversing CAUSE and EFFECT. (Illogical enough to call it magic btw! )

I just dont like the idea of spending Hate after a Sure Shot, or after landing a hard blow, or using it for snake like speed IF the PC have had the opposite restriction placed on their abilities. And so far, no one has really refuted the inconsistency. Should Hate use have been reviewed and put on a level footing with New Hope?

Oh well, not too long now before the hard copy should be in the post! Looking forward to those extra chapters at the back.
 
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eternalsage
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Re: One Rule to bind them.

Sat 18 Sep 2021, 12:24

To put it succinctly, no, it doesn't need to be revised. There is nothing wrong with your need for symmetry, but its lack is not a flaw. If you don't like it the house rule it, but the consensus is that it's not a problem.

You have misunderstood some arguments though. The primary one I see is that you are seeing "enemies die quickly" as "enemies are weak." That is not what I was saying at all. Look at it this way. Enemies are already asymmetrical with heroes. They don't have all three attributes, for one, nor do they have rules for encumbrance or healing. They do not even track damage the same way. None of this is because "they are weaker" but rather that they only have what they need to fulfill their function. And that function is to be a challenge to the players and nothing more. IF they persisted between combats then some of your concerns would be more valid (logically, not emotionally, see the first paragraph) but even that can be dealt with easily with gm handwaving.

What is apparent to me is that you seem uncomfortable making the rules your own and generally being a gm. Not calling you out, I just get the sense that you are newer to it. We've all been there. It's cool. The players should never know when the bad guys are using their resources or even what resources they have. That is the purpose of the screen. They don't see what happens behind it because they don't need to. And if I'm wrong on your newness then I apologize and can only say we have vastly different ideas on gming, which is also fine, I just don't have any advice to give.
“It is useless to meet revenge with revenge; it will heal nothing.” - Frodo Baggins, Return of the King
 
Dunheved
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Re: One Rule to bind them.

Sat 18 Sep 2021, 12:40

HA HA. Yes, all good comments, and astute! Cheers.
 
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Asrath
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Re: One Rule to bind them.

Sat 18 Sep 2021, 15:42


The players should never know when the bad guys are using their resources or even what resources they have. That is the purpose of the screen. They don't see what happens behind it because they don't need to. And if I'm wrong on your newness then I apologize and can only say we have vastly different ideas on gming, which is also fine, I just don't have any advice to give.
I actually tell my players when an adversary reaches out to his/her inner reserve and spends a point of Hope.
On the one hand I think it is something the heroes would really notice. Effects like Snakelike-Speed, Horrible-Strength or a Spell do not come out of the air. The NPC has to do something visually.
Additionally I like to show the players, that adversaries have limited resources too, that can be reduced eg. with intimidate foe.
 
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eternalsage
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Re: One Rule to bind them.

Sat 18 Sep 2021, 16:05

Fair enough. Again, different approaches for different gms. Just because I do it a certain way doesn't make it right. Even then, though, they don't have to know when you spent the point. For example: "-dice roll- the orc chieftain let's out a raging shriek, using a point of hate to..."

They don't know where you spent it and they shouldn't so you can maintain maximum fudging capability.
“It is useless to meet revenge with revenge; it will heal nothing.” - Frodo Baggins, Return of the King
 
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Asrath
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Re: One Rule to bind them.

Sat 18 Sep 2021, 22:16

Fair enough. Again, different approaches for different gms. Just because I do it a certain way doesn't make it right. Even then, though, they don't have to know when you spent the point. For example: "-dice roll- the orc chieftain let's out a raging shriek, using a point of hate to..."

They don't know where you spent it and they shouldn't so you can maintain maximum fudging capability.
All good! I didn’t mean to judge your approach. I just wanted to introduce a different approach. As you wrote: different approaches for different gms.
Sorry if my comment was misleading in any way.
 
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eternalsage
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Re: One Rule to bind them.

Tue 21 Sep 2021, 06:00

I didn't take any offense, lol. Just trying to illustrate how your idea and mine could coexist happily. :D
“It is useless to meet revenge with revenge; it will heal nothing.” - Frodo Baggins, Return of the King
 
gull2112
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Re: One Rule to bind them.

Wed 22 Sep 2021, 02:40

Great discussion!
I am inclined to let them know the resources the adversaries are using for awhile as they try to understand the system. Perhaps later I will keep it secret if I find my people are getting too meta-game about it.

To some extent, understanding the mechanics replaces actually being there. If they were actually there, they could sense how exhausted, or not exhausted, they were getting. They could feel the Hatred oozing from their pores. Since they can't do that, they use the math and mechanics of the system to grant a similar level of appreciation.

Additionally, what I intend ideally, and what I actually accomplish, varies widely depend how long I've been running the session for. I am getting older, and I find fatigue sapping my attentional resources if we spend a couple hours straight in combat.

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