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From a game point of view, do you think starting at Poor standard of living with an extra 1 skill point is okay? I'm thinking it should be okay. It's a 1 in 3 chance if playing a Lindon Elf that you are of Laiquendi decent, but as we've discussed Elves don't really care about money anyway. An adventuring Elf probably keeps a few shiny things from their adventures (sound like magpies) and just keep a few coins, so most of their treasure points will likely be gems and jewellery and other shiny things.

This also applies to my standard of living idea for Lindon Elves - a Noldor is more likely to have a few more shiny things than a Sindar who again likely has more shiny things than a Laiquendi, just from the point of view of things that get passed down to them. Also applies to Useful items, Noldor likely would have more 'stuff' than a Sindar and again a Sindar more than a simple green elf.

I think this all makes sense from a Lore point of view.

As adventurers are folk that stand apart from their culture I think a Laiquendi who leaves the safety of Lindon being even rarer than a Hobbit from some sleepy village going off on wild adventures, is okay.

To be honest I don´t see why the laiquendi would be poor:

Poor Standard of Living definition:
"Impoverished folks are probably suffering from a bad harvest season, a fell winter, or the aftermath of a disease or war. They struggle every day to find what they need to survive, and have no time or resources to look for anything beyond the bare necessities, let alone equip themselves for adventure."

By definition If you are poor you cannot afford weapons, amor or anything else.. because you would rather sell them to eat.
So there would not much they would do as an adventurer

Yeah I'm going to have the same problem with Rangers.

I was trying to come up with a symmetry for each culture. 1 result of +1, 3 results of Cultural Normal, 2 results of -1 Standard of Living.

But both Rangers and Elves of Lindon would have 2 Poor standard of Living results.


Reading that description of poor is a bit jarring...

Hmmm

I can see the Rangers being Poor because they don't have any real permanent big settlement with manufacturing (*) and don't create any new wealth. What weapons and armor they have is mostly heirloom.

Elves, on the other hand, is a different story. When you have the means of building ocean-worthy ships, you're not a poor culture.

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(*) "Manufactoring" as in a forge with a blacksmith or baker cooking bread, not a textile factory

Elves vs Dwarves in terms of Standard of Living/Relation to money is a bit like Federation vs Ferengi in Star Trek.
and I wouldn't attribute neither Federation nor Elves a frugal Standard of living - just a different disposition to accumulating wealth which is something different.

I'm going to handwave the Poor Standard of Living a little, its more of an individual situation rather than saying all Laiquendi are poor etc.

When I've finished there will be 216 variations for each culture to go alongside the default from the book. When I first started it was just a thought experiment that I was musing over, (Like I said I'm not a fan of cookie cutter characters) but now that I've nearly finished I'm quite happy with what I've come up with.

Not sure on the best way of showing it off for critique - it's a standard word document, I'm not great at making things look fancy. I used to get Rich Harrison or James Brown to do that for me I'm more of an ideas man.

I should probably open a different topic to talk about it really.

I have to be honest, I don’t think the Lord / Commoner distinction makes much sense for the Elves of the late Third Age. What would seem to be more deterministic of their lifestyle is whether they live a sedentary life in an Elven settlement, or whether they live a “wandering” or itinerant lifestyle - entirely a matter of personal choice, not of lineage, which is rather clearly illustrated in the episode when Frodo meets Gildor (almost certainly a Noldor noble from the House of Finrod) wandering around the Shire.

You might want to divide it more by “settled” ve “itinerant” Elves within the culture. Those who have chosen to congregate at the Havens, Rivendell, Thranduil’s Halls, etc have more opportunity and proclivity to accumulate useful items and physical wealth, while those who are wandering for whatever reason (as wardens, healers, explorers, or simply because they prefer a life on road) are going to by necessity have a lower standard of living.

Though I have to agree that the game rules now make a virtue of higher standard of living which Tolkien may not have entirely approved. Though the wording of “prosperous” certainly is a positive thing, he often casts as villains those who have accumulated too much “for their own good” and fall prey to avarice.

My two (or three ) cents about the question:

(1) From a lore point of view, sorting out Noldor, Sindar and Laiquendi/Green Elves in Lindon at the End of the Third Age (after 6.000 years intermingling and leaving together as a cohesive group) makes no sense at all and it is totally inaccurate. As many people have pointed out in the forums through the years, one of the best things in this game is precisely that it is Culture-based and not Race-based, as this wipes out the classical problem of races in Lindon (Noldor/Sindar/Laiquendi), Mirkwood (Sindar/Nandor), Lórien (Noldor/Sindar/Nandor) and Gondor (Dúnedain/Common Men). In all those countries, the different races had heavily intermingled through thousands of years and are now one.

(2) People tend to say Noldor Elves when they mean Calaquendi, that’s is, incredibly ancient individuals that had actually seen the Light of Valinor or their immediate descendants (sons/daughters and perhaps grandsons/granddaughters). Only these few individuals (that bitterly refer to themselves as “the Exiles”) could properly be considered to keep a “pure” Noldorin Culture and Race. These Qualaquendi (and their Culture) are covered in TOR game through the High Elves of Rivendell Culture.

Yeah you make a good point about race being removed in favour of culture Voronwe.

Besides the fact that their leader is Telari rather than Noldor.

So I still need 6 ways of splitting them up by social class.

I think Richkarp is on to something with wanderer vs settled but that only gives 2.

Perhaps adding in reclusive as a third, could be the other poor result.

Darn it.

I've finished the rest of the cultures, went with bloodlines for the Rangers and it works quite well.

Come on guys, put your thinking caps on, I need help.

Well Aiden one way you could do it would be to make standard of living for Elves a multi-part question: part lineage or geographic, and part current mode of living or occupation.

For instance a refugee from Eregion can easily explain why they have access to an extra Useful Item from their past life.

Could also make it a function of Calling such that wanderers, slayers and wardens have -1 level of wealth, treasure hunters or scholars +1.