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Aiden Harrison
Posts: 133
Joined: Sun 18 Apr 2021, 09:49

Re: New Journey System - yay or nay?

Sun 25 Jul 2021, 03:07

I'm actually quite excited to expand on the Travel system (already seen a few ideas in this thread that has the creative juices flowing).

I'm thinking of the Travel table as basic mode, I'm confident that we as a community can enhance it.

I enjoyed swapping ideas with other Loremasters, I'm sure the eventual House Rules section of this forum will be a vibrant place to cultivate our imaginations.
 
MDuckworth83
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Posts: 73
Joined: Tue 06 Jul 2021, 03:32

Re: New Journey System - yay or nay?

Sun 25 Jul 2021, 03:16

I'm actually quite excited to expand on the Travel system (already seen a few ideas in this thread that has the creative juices flowing).

I'm thinking of the Travel table as basic mode, I'm confident that we as a community can enhance it.

I enjoyed swapping ideas with other Loremasters, I'm sure the eventual House Rules section of this forum will be a vibrant place to cultivate our imaginations.
I'm just one of those types who is really reticent against houseruling until I feel I have lots of experience and a deep understanding of the system. I tend to believe if I'm spending $50 a core rulebook, that I'm buying a product that is carefully playtested, balanced, and optimized as RAW. I hate having to "patch" a game, possibly throwing off the balance of other mechanics and causing confusion with players when the RAW in their books aren't what they are playing. I've done it, but it's not something I do lightly at all.

What I'm holding out for is to see some pre-written adventures for 2e and seeing what the developers do with Councils and Journeys. If they do a really good job writing up thematic event combinations specific to adventure/region (as they did in 1e), then it might be a complete non-issue. Also I would assume at some point they will hopefully develop a product like those Hobbit Cards, or like the Journeying supplement rulebook that will "really" flesh things out.
 
gyrovague
Posts: 591
Joined: Tue 28 Apr 2020, 16:52

Re: New Journey System - yay or nay?

Sun 25 Jul 2021, 05:47

If they do a really good job writing up thematic event combinations specific to adventure/region (as they did in 1e), then it might be a complete non-issue.

I don't think that changes the implications of the mechanics.

My criticism of the new Journey rules is basically exactly the same as my criticism of traps that require a passive perception check, and if that fails then a dexterity check, and if that fails then you take damage. At no point is the player asked to make a hard decision; they are just rolling dice reactively. So adding an elaborate description of the trap, and a harrowing narration of what happens when it is triggered, doesn't change the underlying problem.
 
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Michele
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Re: New Journey System - yay or nay?

Sun 25 Jul 2021, 12:01

My criticism of the new Journey rules is basically exactly the same as my criticism of traps that require a passive perception check, and if that fails then a dexterity check, and if that fails then you take damage. At no point is the player asked to make a hard decision; they are just rolling dice reactively. So adding an elaborate description of the trap, and a harrowing narration of what happens when it is triggered, doesn't change the underlying problem.

Well, they might not be called to make hard decisions, but the Journey Event description will prompt them to check if any of their Useful Items may be... well, useful, and/or if any of their Distictive Features are applicable.
Plus, as a Loremaster I would definitely award a bonus die for clever ideas and good roleplaying.

Also, I think that Journey rules should only provide a framework for the story. Loremasters shouldn't delegate all the work to the random Events table: if they want a fight to happen, or call their players to make hard decisions, they should simply interrupt the Journey, play a full-fledged game scene with whatever complication they want for the players to overcome (an ambush, an improvised Council, an obstacle requiring a clever solution), then resume the Journey.
It is not our part to master all the tides of the world, but to do what is in us for the succour of those years wherein we are set, uprooting the evil in the fields that we know, so that those who live after may have clean earth to till.
 
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aramis
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Re: New Journey System - yay or nay?

Sun 25 Jul 2021, 12:38

Horses (but not ponies) should be able to speed up travel on short runs, but the rules do not provide for this mechanically, despite Page 50 stating the increase in speed and then referring one to the Journey rules
Top of p112 has the impact of horses on journey time - it's over a page from other travel stuff so it's easy to miss.

Hope this helps! :)
It doesn't help because it's not got what I've said is missing;

The only benefit on p112 of horses is extra dice on the Marching test.
Page 50 mentions speed.

Marching tests DO NOT affect travel time overland; the time is a factor of the hexes covered without reference to the quality of the roll. (p112, lower right, is the ONLY section on determining travel time, and it's very simple, and fails to mention horses.
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Dorjcal
Posts: 81
Joined: Sun 11 Jul 2021, 10:22

Re: New Journey System - yay or nay?

Sun 25 Jul 2021, 13:29

Horses (but not ponies) should be able to speed up travel on short runs, but the rules do not provide for this mechanically, despite Page 50 stating the increase in speed and then referring one to the Journey rules
Top of p112 has the impact of horses on journey time - it's over a page from other travel stuff so it's easy to miss.

Hope this helps! :)
It doesn't help because it's not got what I've said is missing;

"If the entire Company is travelling on horseback, halve the resulting total to give the number of days travelled (the Loremaster should consider that riding is normally possible only along roads and good paths — certain areas, like heavily wooded regions, do not allow the Company to proceed on horseback at all)." - Alpha, p112, top left (adjacent to a dragon's wing).


If the entire Company is travelling on horseback, halve the resulting total to give the number of days travelled (the Loremaster should consider that riding is normally possible only along roads and good paths — certain areas, like heav- ily wooded regions, do not allow the Company to proceed on horseback at all). Page 108

The only benefit on p112 of horses is extra dice on the Marching test.
Page 50 mentions speed.

Marching tests DO NOT affect travel time overland; the time is a factor of the hexes covered without reference to the quality of the roll. (p112, lower right, is the ONLY section on determining travel time, and it's very simple, and fails to mention horses.
Last edited by Dorjcal on Sun 25 Jul 2021, 21:14, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Harlath
Posts: 518
Joined: Sun 19 Jul 2020, 10:40

Re: New Journey System - yay or nay?

Sun 25 Jul 2021, 13:49

It doesn't help because it's not got what I've said is missing;

The only benefit on p112 of horses is extra dice on the Marching test.
Page 50 mentions speed.

Marching tests DO NOT affect travel time overland; the time is a factor of the hexes covered without reference to the quality of the roll. (p112, lower right, is the ONLY section on determining travel time, and it's very simple, and fails to mention horses.
Sorry my first post wasn't helpful! I was on my mobile and unable to quote from the alpha.

My pdf has the following on p112, but it could be that different pdfs have different numbering? I think this may well be the case, as the you reference on your time as coming from your p112's lower right is indeed in that position in my pdf, but is on p111 on my pdf's numbering and the alpha rulebook's numbering.

On the next page we get:

"If the entire Company is travelling on horseback, halve the resulting total to give the number of days travelled (the Loremaster should consider that riding is normally possible only along roads and good paths — certain areas, like heavily wooded regions, do not allow the Company to proceed on horseback at all)." - Alpha, p112, top left (adjacent to a dragon's wing).

Hope this post is more helpful! :)
 
Mythicos
Posts: 124
Joined: Tue 16 Jun 2020, 03:46

Re: New Journey System - yay or nay?

Sun 25 Jul 2021, 18:43

It doesn't help because it's not got what I've said is missing;

The only benefit on p112 of horses is extra dice on the Marching test.
Page 50 mentions speed.

Marching tests DO NOT affect travel time overland; the time is a factor of the hexes covered without reference to the quality of the roll. (p112, lower right, is the ONLY section on determining travel time, and it's very simple, and fails to mention horses.
Sorry my first post wasn't helpful! I was on my mobile and unable to quote from the alpha.

My pdf has the following on p112, but it could be that different pdfs have different numbering? I think this may well be the case, as the you reference on your time as coming from your p112's lower right is indeed in that position in my pdf, but is on p111 on my pdf's numbering and the alpha rulebook's numbering.

On the next page we get:

"If the entire Company is travelling on horseback, halve the resulting total to give the number of days travelled (the Loremaster should consider that riding is normally possible only along roads and good paths — certain areas, like heavily wooded regions, do not allow the Company to proceed on horseback at all)." - Alpha, p112, top left (adjacent to a dragon's wing).

Hope this post is more helpful! :)

It is :-)
 
gyrovague
Posts: 591
Joined: Tue 28 Apr 2020, 16:52

Re: New Journey System - yay or nay?

Sun 25 Jul 2021, 18:51

Well, they might not be called to make hard decisions, but the Journey Event description will prompt them to check if any of their Useful Items may be... well, useful, and/or if any of their Distictive Features are applicable.

I bet you could find a way to put a positive spin on the "Weapon vs. Armor Type" modifier table from D&D 1e.

Image
 
Asgo
Posts: 143
Joined: Tue 29 Jun 2021, 12:18

Re: New Journey System - yay or nay?

Mon 26 Jul 2021, 02:38

....
My criticism of the new Journey rules is basically exactly the same as my criticism of traps that require a passive perception check, and if that fails then a dexterity check, and if that fails then you take damage. At no point is the player asked to make a hard decision; they are just rolling dice reactively. So adding an elaborate description of the trap, and a harrowing narration of what happens when it is triggered, doesn't change the underlying problem.
the lack of decisions leaves me with the impression that the system might end up being too much if your are basically just calculating a stats travel cost and too rigid in its abstractions if you actually want to play out the journey with interactive scenes.
The easiest way to introduce choice seems to interpret the target selection not as has hard player/roll selection, but as focus selection of an abstracted location or situation.
So for example, 2 could be something like "while scouting" where the scouts, because of their role, have the easiest chance to react to, but you could imagine the look outs might have a good chance to be somehow able to take action, while the rest of the roles would be probably too unaware to do anything - defining such degrees for all cases.

Then the group could decide based on the set scene which group roles should be able to react narratively and take the additional difficulty of the narratively lesser chance to react if they think that would be a good idea.
Since the event table has outcomes with "at least one" or "if all fail" there is the additional choice element of deciding between potentially different numbers of rolls and how that might figure in their potential success.
Of course that requires introducing some form of difficulty, which might or might not be desired, but given the multiple options of removing dice, requiring more successes or adding TN boni it shouldn't be hard to define something workable.
An alternative would be to keep the fixed group selection, but offer the respective players a graded selection of potentially useful skills to choose from. Just with the given, for example Hunting as primary choice for Hunters and Athletics as secondary with an increase in difficulty.
Both variants would be comparably small changes to the general procedure of Journeys, but provides a bit more of "LM sets the scene - players/chars make a choice - test resolution" with focus on making some choice in it.
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