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Asrath
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Joined: Fri 05 Jun 2020, 14:07

Re: Balance of Distinctive Features and Useful Items

Fri 02 Jul 2021, 08:18

In the Laketown supplement in 1ed you could buy items on the market as an undertaking, and those quality items added a bonus of +1 (not 1d) to relevant skill checks. This bonus could be raised to +2 at most. That kind of bonus is to me a more fitting bonus for a useful, but not magical, item that does not affect game balance as much. The designers seem to have got rid of number bonuses this time (every bonus or penalty is counted in 1d, 2d etc).
I like the idea of adding a die for a useful item instead of a fixed bonus. This way you don't have to calculate the exact result and might obtain another Tengwar. I also understand that a useful item that belongs to me only and that I love using is inspiring. Other than any other item for the same purpose. I also cannot give my useful item to someone else in the company transferring the advantage. Coming back to the example above, using the hammer I'm used to for smithing is something different than using a hammer from someone else. Does that make sense?

Still I hassle with linking it to the standard of living. Some cultures are then having an advantage over others, as also mentioned above. Do all useful items have to be expansive? I don't think so. A useful item could even be self-made, costing almost nothing. That would even strengthen the bond between the character and the item.
In my future game I currently tend to allow all cultures one (or two) useful items independently of their standard of living. They only should come up with an interesting story, how they got / made the item.
 
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Michele
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Re: Balance of Distinctive Features and Useful Items

Fri 02 Jul 2021, 11:24

Useful Items are by no means designed to be a simple +1d to a single Skill.

You must give them context, a description and then associate it to a Skill, and the Loremaster will evaluate accordingly whether or not the bonus is applicable.

For example, an Elven Rope will give a +1d bonus to Athletics when used to climb, or swing down a cliff, or making a very tight knot; but it is unlikely to provide its bonus when swimming in the rapids, or jumping over a chasm.

The same goes for pretty much any other Useful Items you can think of: they represent a small aid in very limited situations, that at the same time better define your character (Why do you have that object? Has it sentimental value? Where did you find it, or who did you inherit it from?).

Hence, their application, while not requiring the expenditure of Hope, is much narrower than that of the Distinctive Features.
It is not our part to master all the tides of the world, but to do what is in us for the succour of those years wherein we are set, uprooting the evil in the fields that we know, so that those who live after may have clean earth to till.
 
rennarda
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Re: Balance of Distinctive Features and Useful Items

Fri 02 Jul 2021, 13:24

I don't think Useful items are too powerful - you need to be able to justify the item's usefulness for a 1d bonus. For most items, I can't see that happening more than once a session, if that.
 
Readwit
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Re: Balance of Distinctive Features and Useful Items

Fri 02 Jul 2021, 13:30

1) Presumably there *will* be Rich and Poor cultures.
Why? There weren't ever Poor cultures in 1e even though the Standard of Living level already existed, and the only Rich culture were Dwarves, which are only Prosperous in 2e.
 
gyrovague
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Re: Balance of Distinctive Features and Useful Items

Fri 02 Jul 2021, 16:18

Why? There weren't ever Poor cultures in 1e even though the Standard of Living level already existed, and the only Rich culture were Dwarves, which are only Prosperous in 2e.
Not that I think it really matters, because even if we only have Frugal through Prosperous the problem is there. And you're right: I thought Wild Hobbits of Anduin Valley were poor, but I just checked and they were only Frugal. We may still see Erebor dwarves, though. The current Dwarves are described more as those still wandering in Eriador. But maybe not: this new mechanic gives the designers and incentive to leave the lowest and high category empty, to give PCs somewhere to go.
 
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Asrath
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Re: Balance of Distinctive Features and Useful Items

Fri 02 Jul 2021, 17:37

Useful Items are by no means designed to be a simple +1d to a single Skill.

You must give them context, a description and then associate it to a Skill, and the Loremaster will evaluate accordingly whether or not the bonus is applicable.

For example, an Elven Rope will give a +1d bonus to Athletics when used to climb, or swing down a cliff, or making a very tight knot; but it is unlikely to provide its bonus when swimming in the rapids, or jumping over a chasm.

The same goes for pretty much any other Useful Items you can think of: they represent a small aid in very limited situations, that at the same time better define your character (Why do you have that object? Has it sentimental value? Where did you find it, or who did you inherit it from?).

Hence, their application, while not requiring the expenditure of Hope, is much narrower than that of the Distinctive Features.
I agree. There are useful items that are only helpful in a certain context, like the rope. But as a player I'd look for items that can be used more often. Like a wandering stick for Travel. That could be used every time the character travels from A to B, which happens a lot. Or a ring or even a tattoo, that supports Awe. Or some glasses, that make me look smarter, giving 1d6 to Persuade. Sure, these skills are not used as often as Travel, but still I could use the item most likely every time I use that skill.

But in the current state of the game this fear of unbalance is nothing more like a feeling in my guts. I should definitely try the rules as designed by Francesco first. I'm sure they discussed such topics a lot and I should see how that works for me.
 
gyrovague
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Re: Balance of Distinctive Features and Useful Items

Fri 02 Jul 2021, 18:14

I agree. There are useful items that are only helpful in a certain context, like the rope. But as a player I'd look for items that can be used more often. Like a wandering stick for Travel. That could be used every time the character travels from A to B, which happens a lot. Or a ring or even a tattoo, that supports Awe. Or some glasses, that make me look smarter, giving 1d6 to Persuade. Sure, these skills are not used as often as Travel, but still I could use the item most likely every time I use that skill.

But in the current state of the game this fear of unbalance is nothing more like a feeling in my guts. I should definitely try the rules as designed by Francesco first. I'm sure they discussed such topics a lot and I should see how that works for me.
Yes, this is my concern as well. If the only limit to how often they are used is contextual it creates an incentive to choose items that are most likely to be frequently contextual, rather than optimizing for narrative flavor.
 
Dunkelbrink
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu 10 Jul 2014, 22:29

Re: Balance of Distinctive Features and Useful Items

Fri 02 Jul 2021, 18:21

I agree. There are useful items that are only helpful in a certain context, like the rope. But as a player I'd look for items that can be used more often. Like a wandering stick for Travel. That could be used every time the character travels from A to B, which happens a lot. Or a ring or even a tattoo, that supports Awe. Or some glasses, that make me look smarter, giving 1d6 to Persuade. Sure, these skills are not used as often as Travel, but still I could use the item most likely every time I use that skill.

But in the current state of the game this fear of unbalance is nothing more like a feeling in my guts. I should definitely try the rules as designed by Francesco first. I'm sure they discussed such topics a lot and I should see how that works for me.
Yes, this is my concern as well. If the only limit to how often they are used is contextual it creates an incentive to choose items that are most likely to be frequently contextual, rather than optimizing for narrative flavor.
Maybe if the useful items were limited to one use per session, requiring how the item helped in that particular situation. But too many “once per session” things to remember is of course a drawback too. There are a couple of “x times per adventure phase” in the rules as now, so the concept is not new.
 
edufernandes
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed 17 Feb 2021, 21:28

Re: Balance of Distinctive Features and Useful Items

Fri 02 Jul 2021, 18:32

Since the standard of living is just given by the choice of culture, not by a player's choice afterwards, I think, if the poorer cultures have another bonus elsewhere: more attribute points, more powerful culture virtues, a larger list of virtues, a powerful cultural blessing, or anything else, it would balance this Standard of Living system.
 
thegrin
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue 29 Jun 2021, 12:42

Re: Balance of Distinctive Features and Useful Items

Sat 03 Jul 2021, 19:35

Does it need to be balanced? A rich person can get killed by an orc as easily as poor or frugal one. For my group it hasn't come up much in play. Some are prosperous at the start, the rest got treasure and it all evened out.

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