gyrovague
Posts: 108
Joined: Tue 28 Apr 2020, 16:52

Re: Some concerns about TN and the difficulty of skill rolls (too easy to succeed)

Wed 28 Apr 2021, 07:10

But besides that mechanical part, I think there's a hard interest in the new rules to make players avoid rolling unless really necessary. That is something that, in my opinion, has transpired over severall comments by Francesco here and there. If there is a roll at the table, it should be because something is difficult, not average. Then, each hero will have to struggle hard to put his traits and items to good use to increase their chances of succeeding.
I hope you're right about that. I'm a convert to the RPG philosophy of "if you're rolling dice, you've already at least partly failed." In overcoming challenges, I want to minimize the frequency of my success hinging on random number generation.

But how this works seems to be hard for many players...especially veterans...to grasp. They think random number generation is the heart of the game, and that anything else must involve fast-talking the GM into letting you have your way. A lot of people have been playing for a long time where you declare an action your character is taking, specify what skill on the character sheet you're using for it, and roll the dice all as one thing, before the GM even has time to respond. "I'll search for traps...17 on my Perception!" In my 5e group when I'm DMing I've tried to train people off of this, but it's an uphill battle. Their ways are set.
 
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Falenthal
Posts: 178
Joined: Tue 10 Mar 2020, 21:13

Re: Some concerns about TN and the difficulty of skill rolls (too easy to succeed)

Wed 28 Apr 2021, 07:50

But how this works seems to be hard for many players...especially veterans...to grasp. [...] A lot of people have been playing for a long time where you declare an action your character is taking, specify what skill on the character sheet you're using for it, and roll the dice all as one thing, before the GM even has time to respond. "I'll search for traps...17 on my Perception!"
That's very true, even for myself.

I have to admit that, in the last few years, my take on this and also that of many of my friends at the table, has changed thanks to what the PbtA games propose. I have to say that, having never played or GMed a PbtA game, reading over them and seeing a few playthroughs on YT, has opened my mind to what a test roll can mean. The simple yet revolucionary (at least to me) concept of "partial success" or "success with consequences" allows rolling to become more than a black or white outcome. Also, experiencing some of those so-called "narrative games" allowed me to see that the improvisation regarding plots and NPCs doesn't make for bland narratives or characters, quite the contrary: what comes up at the table during gameplay feels most of the time much more natural and believable than trying to impose an event or NPC's reaction that has been planned and written in a supplement without knowing my players, their acts and their interests.

Everytime I tend a bit more to use all-or-nothing rolls mostly for combats, and those tests outside of combat tend to tell me just how well (or badly) the character succeeded in what he was planning to do, but very few times a failure in the dice means a barren door. I find more fun the philosophy of "The Show (or the Narrative) must go on!".
 
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HunterGreen
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri 12 Jun 2020, 14:59

Re: Some concerns about TN and the difficulty of skill rolls (too easy to succeed)

Wed 28 Apr 2021, 12:53

If TOR 2e is going to stick to the premise that rolls should only be made when something is a true challenge, and the outcome of the roll makes a real difference to the story, then I hope it has (as the sample character sheet suggests maybe it has) separated earning Advancement Points from finding or inventing every possible reason to roll on as wide a variety of skills as possible.
TOR/AiME Discord: [url]https://discord.me/theonering[/url]
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gyrovague
Posts: 108
Joined: Tue 28 Apr 2020, 16:52

Re: Some concerns about TN and the difficulty of skill rolls (too easy to succeed)

Wed 28 Apr 2021, 21:28

If TOR 2e is going to stick to the premise that rolls should only be made when something is a true challenge, and the outcome of the roll makes a real difference to the story, then I hope it has (as the sample character sheet suggests maybe it has) separated earning Advancement Points from finding or inventing every possible reason to roll on as wide a variety of skills as possible.
Yes, completely agree. Players should be rewarded for overcoming challenges, not thinking up excuses to roll dice.

(Although, one house rule I've used in 1e is that you can earn an AP for invoking a trait when you fail with an Eye of Sauron. My personal favorite was when I completely failed my attempt to surprise a foe when I burst through the door. I invoked "Tall" and narrated that I cracked my head on the doorframe so hard it knocked me on my butt.)

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