leonpoi
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Thought on suppression

Fri 28 Jan 2022, 05:05

A thought on suppression. What do you think about the ability to convert suppression hits to actual hits even on a failed skill check when attacking?

I’m thinking something like two suppression dice can be converted to hit even if you miss.

Maybe two dice at short range, three dice at medium, four dice beyond that, which makes it much less likely.

I’d like to hear your thoughts on this.
 
paladin2019
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Re: Thought on suppression

Fri 28 Jan 2022, 07:04

Because suppression is on/off, it doesn't matter how many suppression results you score. Thus, this isn't any kind of loss or tradeoff because hits suppress the hex, too. It just makes suppression better.
 
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Ursus Maior
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Re: Thought on suppression

Fri 28 Jan 2022, 12:42

I'd favor the original rules in this instance. As mentioned above, a target hit has to roll for suppression anyway, so a conversion makes suppression stronger as a game mechanic. Don't get me wrong, suppression is a strong element in any modern firefight and I think FL got this one spot on. However, I think it's important to keep the effect going that suppression works without producing actual causalities. Most modern firefights do not actually produce large numbers of causalities, if both sides know what they're doing. It's combat within short ranges ("hand grenade distance") and confined spaces, that produces massed casualties. Otherwise, once you're overpowered, you break contact and reengage on better terms later (or don't). Of course the enemy will try not to let you, trying to get closer while keeping you suppressed. And that's when the hurt starts: Shooting at a suppressed enemy at point-blank-range is boils down to an execution; on that note, I would definitely count a suppressed enemy as being defenseless, as they cannot take actions and are just lying prone on the ground.
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omnipus
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Re: Thought on suppression

Sat 29 Jan 2022, 05:22

I guess my question would be why do you want to do this? What problem are you trying to solve?
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leonpoi
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Re: Thought on suppression

Sat 29 Jan 2022, 16:03

Just one where at close range (well any range) your chance to hit is not really dependent on how many rounds you fire - which is not necessarily a huge issue - but feels a bit odd that a mag dump at 10m by a SMG has no higher chance to hit than a “single” shot. Maybe it all works out statistically in the sense that more shots fired mean more damage if you do hit
 
paladin2019
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Re: Thought on suppression

Sun 30 Jan 2022, 05:27

The burst has no higher chance to hit. If it results in a hit, it has significantly greater chance to result in multiple hits.
 
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Vader
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Re: Thought on suppression

Sun 30 Jan 2022, 19:48

Which, I must agree, is obviously unreasonable wrt. the real-world mechanics.
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https://www.wired.co.uk/article/aliens-throwaway-line-confusion
 
baldrick0712
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Re: Thought on suppression

Mon 31 Jan 2022, 10:26

I do think the rules don't really reflect reality when it comes to huge rates of fire at close range. You would expect hit chance to improve in such situations. It does in one specific situation - using ammo dice successes for extra hits rather than extra damage when the target is in partial cover. In this situation you get a second bite of the cherry at scoring a hit on an exposed part of the body not behind cover as you roll the hit die multiple times - but it is a very specific situation.

I would be tempted to just give the attack "to-hit" modifiers when rolling 4+ ammo dice, depending on range... short: +1, medium: 0, long: -1, extreme: -2. This would discourage huge rates of fire at the longer ranges, when real world soldiers would typically be firing single, aimed shots, and also give more credible hit chance improvements when emptying an entire clip at someone 10m away.
 
HorusZA
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Re: Thought on suppression

Mon 31 Jan 2022, 11:27

One house rule we've tried which worked pretty well is to allow Ammo "hits" to be traded in for a +1 modifier on one of the base dice (you can't add this to any natural 1's)
So, for example, say a a PC rolls a 2 and 5 for an attack with his rifle plus 3 ammo dice which come up 3, 5 and 6. He can use the 6 to add a +1 to the 5 on his base dice turning it into a hit.
Had he rolled a 2 and 4, it would still have been a miss.
This way volume of fire can increase the chance of getting a hit but only in some circumstances where it was a close miss to begin with.

[EDIT] Fixed Typo.
Last edited by HorusZA on Mon 31 Jan 2022, 17:34, edited 2 times in total.
 
baldrick0712
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Re: Thought on suppression

Mon 31 Jan 2022, 15:02

Had he rolled a 2 and 4, it would still have been a hit.
Is this a typo? Did you mean it would still have been a miss?

[EDIT] I still think any house rule should penalise long/extreme range automatic fire as well as rewarding it for short range, even probably for genuine machineguns rather than assault rifles. Recoil should mean that longer range bursts of rounds will tend to form a "beaten zone" rather than having laser-like precision and causing multiple hits/more damage to a single target.

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