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Fenhorn
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Re: Missing gear entries in release

Sun 22 Aug 2021, 08:48

The Official Foundry T2K module lists

Clean Water Wt 1/2 Pr 1 (this is a new entry in the list).
Diesel/Gasoline Wt 1/4 Pr 50 (the weight is new).
Is 1/4 for a liter of fuel? That's about half what it should weigh.

EDIT: That is, of course, assuming that water is also rounded to 1 liter rather than the 1/2 ENC of a day's ration. 25 kg or 8 ENC is still a good number for a jerrycan and that supports 1/2 ENC for a liter of packaged fuel.
1 ENC is about 3 kg (if water this is 3 liters). This means that 1/2 ENC is 1,5 kg and 1/4 ENC is 0,75 kg. This means that, 1/2 ENC of water is 1,5 liters and 1/4 ENC of fuel is 1 liter since fuel (gasoline(diesel) is roughly 0,7-0,85 kg per liter.

Sure, ENC is also bulk, but for liquids that is carried in containers, that is not an issue. The ENC for other items may have to be adjusted because of their shape and form.
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aramis
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Re: Missing gear entries in release

Mon 23 Aug 2021, 04:36

The Official Foundry T2K module lists

Clean Water Wt 1/2 Pr 1 (this is a new entry in the list).
Diesel/Gasoline Wt 1/4 Pr 50 (the weight is new).
Is 1/4 for a liter of fuel? That's about half what it should weigh.

EDIT: That is, of course, assuming that water is also rounded to 1 liter rather than the 1/2 ENC of a day's ration. 25 kg or 8 ENC is still a good number for a jerrycan and that supports 1/2 ENC for a liter of packaged fuel.
1/2 fits nicely with the official "two canteens per day," given many don't fill full... as it would be 1.5 l and 1.5 kg. (During basic, I was doing 3 canteens, 3 glasses of flavoraid, and a cup of coffee, each day. Yeah, I slammed a cup of joe over breakfast along with the flavoraid.)
0.75 kg of gas, sg 0.72 to 0.77, 975 ml to 1040 ml - just about perfect.
Be a bit light for diesel.. sg 0.82 to 0.845 gives 824 to 915 ml...

But if we look at the slack factor... .75 kg / .72 kg/l = 1047 ml of petrol while diesel, we'll reverse the equation to find out just how much over a liter of diesel is above 0.75.... 0.845/.075 = 1.277 kg in ¼ load, that's about 4.5kg per load. which would make for 2.2 l water per ration. A pretty reasonable value. Which also means a gerrycan of water is 10 rations. (and probably a 6 load.)
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omnipus
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Re: Missing gear entries in release

Mon 23 Aug 2021, 20:15

Sure, ENC is also bulk, but for liquids that is carried in containers, that is not an issue. The ENC for other items may have to be adjusted because of their shape and form.
I'd argue that for anything more than canteen-ish size, it's the main issue. Sure, the weight of a 20L can is significant -- but really it's the bulk and awkwardness of carrying it that presents the real problem. Unless you have a frame for it, you're stuck giving up one or both hands to carry it. And good luck trying to run with it!
 
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Re: Missing gear entries in release

Mon 23 Aug 2021, 20:27

Sure, ENC is also bulk, but for liquids that is carried in containers, that is not an issue. The ENC for other items may have to be adjusted because of their shape and form.
I'd argue that for anything more than canteen-ish size, it's the main issue. Sure, the weight of a 20L can is significant -- but really it's the bulk and awkwardness of carrying it that presents the real problem. Unless you have a frame for it, you're stuck giving up one or both hands to carry it. And good luck trying to run with it!
The assumption is that water bottles of small size (33 cl to 50 cl or even a liter of pet bottles or something similar are very easy to find and that is how you carry your water. Sure, you can't carry that much without something to carry them in, but that is the reason Encumbrance capacity is divided in this game. If players found a 5 or 10 liter plastic jerrycan, that would itself have an ENC of 1/2 or 1, besides the water.
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aramis
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Re: Missing gear entries in release

Mon 23 Aug 2021, 23:26

Sure, ENC is also bulk, but for liquids that is carried in containers, that is not an issue. The ENC for other items may have to be adjusted because of their shape and form.
I'd argue that for anything more than canteen-ish size, it's the main issue. Sure, the weight of a 20L can is significant -- but really it's the bulk and awkwardness of carrying it that presents the real problem. Unless you have a frame for it, you're stuck giving up one or both hands to carry it. And good luck trying to run with it!
The assumption is that water bottles of small size (33 cl to 50 cl or even a liter of pet bottles or something similar are very easy to find and that is how you carry your water. Sure, you can't carry that much without something to carry them in, but that is the reason Encumbrance capacity is divided in this game. If players found a 5 or 10 liter plastic jerrycan, that would itself have an ENC of 1/2 or 1, besides the water.
An empty civilian plastic 20 l gerrycan is about 5 lbs, so 2.27 kg.that would be (using the same slop factor as for diesel) ¾ load. I think using the term weight instead of load (as was used in Alien) is leading to confusion.
Strapped to a backpack, hardly noticeable. Using the triple-handles correctly, two empties per hand is doable. (Two empty metal ones, at ~5kg each, is doable in 1h as well. I've personally done so.) Full is a different matter.
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Re: Missing gear entries in release

Mon 23 Aug 2021, 23:37



I'd argue that for anything more than canteen-ish size, it's the main issue. Sure, the weight of a 20L can is significant -- but really it's the bulk and awkwardness of carrying it that presents the real problem. Unless you have a frame for it, you're stuck giving up one or both hands to carry it. And good luck trying to run with it!
The assumption is that water bottles of small size (33 cl to 50 cl or even a liter of pet bottles or something similar are very easy to find and that is how you carry your water. Sure, you can't carry that much without something to carry them in, but that is the reason Encumbrance capacity is divided in this game. If players found a 5 or 10 liter plastic jerrycan, that would itself have an ENC of 1/2 or 1, besides the water.
An empty civilian plastic 20 l gerrycan is about 5 lbs, so 2.27 kg.that would be (using the same slop factor as for diesel) ¾ load. I think using the term weight instead of load (as was used in Alien) is leading to confusion.
Strapped to a backpack, hardly noticeable. Using the triple-handles correctly, two empties per hand is doable. (Two empty metal ones, at ~5kg each, is doable in 1h as well. I've personally done so.) Full is a different matter.
I think my players will try to get and hold to a car for as long as they can. Then voila, no problem. Although less stealthy though :?
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Re: Missing gear entries in release

Tue 24 Aug 2021, 00:24

An empty civilian plastic 20 l gerrycan is about 5 lbs, so 2.27 kg.that would be (using the same slop factor as for diesel) ¾ load. I think using the term weight instead of load (as was used in Alien) is leading to confusion.
Strapped to a backpack, hardly noticeable. Using the triple-handles correctly, two empties per hand is doable. (Two empty metal ones, at ~5kg each, is doable in 1h as well. I've personally done so.) Full is a different matter.
Empty, sure. Try to do any of the above when they're full (even the backpack) and you've got problems.

All this does remind me that it's kinda weird there's no encumbrance rule of any kind. You're either below your limit, or can't move. Something else I need to house rule as it just strikes me wrong in several ways.
 
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Re: Missing gear entries in release

Tue 24 Aug 2021, 00:33

An empty civilian plastic 20 l gerrycan is about 5 lbs, so 2.27 kg.that would be (using the same slop factor as for diesel) ¾ load. I think using the term weight instead of load (as was used in Alien) is leading to confusion.
Strapped to a backpack, hardly noticeable. Using the triple-handles correctly, two empties per hand is doable. (Two empty metal ones, at ~5kg each, is doable in 1h as well. I've personally done so.) Full is a different matter.
Empty, sure. Try to do any of the above when they're full (even the backpack) and you've got problems.

All this does remind me that it's kinda weird there's no encumbrance rule of any kind. You're either below your limit, or can't move. Something else I need to house rule as it just strikes me wrong in several ways.
Mutant: Hindenburg (and other Year Zero games) allow you carry up to double your normal carrying capacity by making a skill roll (would be Stamina in this game). You have to roll once per Shift during normal walking or once per round during combat. If you fail, you have to either stop moving or drop items so don't carry to much anymore and move or take one damage and move.

edit: It is a lit bit weird that such rule doesn't exist. Although you can carry more in T2K4E than in other YZE-games.
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omnipus
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Re: Missing gear entries in release

Tue 24 Aug 2021, 05:04

I'm not really a fan of pass/fail skill rolls just to do the thing. I'll make it some sort of choice with consequences, I think. Stamina roll (with modifier for how over-encumbered you are), take damage on a failure. Something like that.
 
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Re: Missing gear entries in release

Tue 24 Aug 2021, 15:58

(Two empty metal ones, at ~5kg each, is doable in 1h as well. I've personally done so.) Full is a different matter.
(FWIW, plastic military jerrycans are also a little less than 5 kg.)

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