leonpoi
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Re: House Rules (1.0 edition)

Thu 04 Nov 2021, 02:52

Hey Omnipus, where did you settle on these house rules? Particularly the machine gun one? Any other changes or tweaks?
 
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omnipus
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Re: House Rules (1.0 edition)

Thu 04 Nov 2021, 22:16

Hm, lots, probably! My campaign is heading in a slightly esoteric direction, so I've been coming up with some rules for dealing with the supernatural that are mostly small changes in their infancy and based on Stress. I haven't finalized these yet though.

For MGs what I've been doing is this: a 5+ on ammo dice triggers suppression if firing at half or more of the weapon's ROF. It hasn't come up a whole ton, though, so I can't say I've tested it extensively. From the handful of times it did, it feels pretty ok, not game-breaking.

Another one I've just implemented was something from a thread here this week, since my players specifically wanted to find some mid-range combat optics, I added a few more types:
  • Sniper Scope - +1 to slow aimed shots, +2 if supported (this is RAW)
  • 3-4x scope - +1 to aimed fire at medium and long range only
  • Red dot - aiming is a free action at short range only. Requires batteries.
  • Laser sight - +2 to unaimed fire indoors/at night out to 100m, reveals your location to observers. Requires batteries.

For actually running the game I've got tons of stuff that I've ported over from other games. I'm using AngryGM's tension dice, I'm using clocks, I'm using a lot of custom oracles and generators and a custom set of rules I came up with for dealing with factions and one I'm working on now for underlings.
Author, Central Poland Sourcebook -- now available on DriveThruRPG
 
baldrick0712
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Re: House Rules (1.0 edition)

Fri 05 Nov 2021, 05:21

Even in the RAW, MGs do get a kind of advantage. They get to roll lots of ammo dice between reloads simply due to their ammo capacity. If you rolled six ammo dice for an assault rifle you'd probably be reloading it the very next turn. Not so for most MGs. It is a "sustained automatic fire" weapon.
 
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omnipus
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Re: House Rules (1.0 edition)

Fri 05 Nov 2021, 06:55

Sure, but that's a small advantage, especially in a world where you're likely low on supply and not wanting to shoot your whole load every time. In RAW MGs have a few significant disadvantages and no other advantages whatsoever. I don't feel like that accurately represents how critically important MGs are to infantry.
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baldrick0712
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Re: House Rules (1.0 edition)

Fri 05 Nov 2021, 09:17

I don't feel like that accurately represents how critically important MGs are to infantry.
It depends. The British Army and US Marine Corps are both phasing out the "Minimi" LMG. Their assessment was that, bang for buck, an LMG was not as effective as a regular rifle. They favour heavier GPMG machineguns with a longer range, slower rate of fire, heavier bullet and more accuracy.

https://www.eliteukforces.info/uk-milit ... se-out.php
 
leonpoi
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Re: House Rules (1.0 edition)

Fri 05 Nov 2021, 14:56

@ Omnipus - thanks for sharing

I think I just like the idea of MGs getting some benefit (other than larger ammo) for the penalty to hit un-deployed and the extra weight.

I'm really trying to not house rule the world out of things here - just beause I can, doesn't mean I should ....

For this
For MGs what I've been doing is this: a 5+ on ammo dice triggers suppression if firing at half or more of the weapon's ROF. It hasn't come up a whole ton, though, so I can't say I've tested it extensively. From the handful of times it did, it feels pretty ok, not game-breaking.

What I'm trying is that 2 5's count as a suppression (or an additional hit - I haven't decided that yet, but I'm thinking or an additional hit). @ Omnipus I think mechanically it ends up being very similar to what you are doing anyway because the chance of getting multiple 5s really only becomes significant after ROF4 anyway (because it's impossible on 1 dice, 1/36 on 2 dice, etc,) - so I'm just trying that. Like I said, I suspect it gives almost the same odds as your approach

I also toyed with the idea of allowing "machine gunner" speciality to re-roll ammo dice on a roll (not the normal test dice) rather than get the +1 bonus. I'm on the fence about this because it'll be an additional re-roll over and above pushing etc - I'm not sure

//

it's also interesting to hear about the various "GM assistance stuff" - how are you using clocks (I assume PbtA clocks).
 
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Viperion_NZ
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Re: House Rules (1.0 edition)

Sun 07 Nov 2021, 08:27

I don't feel like that accurately represents how critically important MGs are to infantry.
It depends. The British Army and US Marine Corps are both phasing out the "Minimi" LMG. Their assessment was that, bang for buck, an LMG was not as effective as a regular rifle. They favour heavier GPMG machineguns with a longer range, slower rate of fire, heavier bullet and more accuracy.

https://www.eliteukforces.info/uk-milit ... se-out.php
Not in the year 2000, they're not
 
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omnipus
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Re: House Rules (1.0 edition)

Sun 07 Nov 2021, 20:21

That's a cycle that goes back and forth all the time. For instance the Russians have gone back and forth three or four times now on whether they should rely on the RPK or the PKM. The Army and Marines keep changing their minds about automatic rifles versus SAWs versus MMGs. A lot of it is just business and contracts. You'd think armies might know what they want by now, but no. Then again, you prepare for the next war and are always surprised by the war you get instead.
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baldrick0712
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Re: House Rules (1.0 edition)

Sun 07 Nov 2021, 20:39

Interesting discussion re. MGs. However, I don't see ROF 6 being any different for an LMG compared to an Assault Rifle; they are both spitting out lead in more or less equal quantities and equally fast. Maybe the problem is just that the weight of an MG and its bipod are not being given sufficient credit. Both would tend to improve the accuracy of automatic fire. Maybe just give MGs a +1 for firing when prone?
 
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omnipus
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Re: House Rules (1.0 edition)

Sun 07 Nov 2021, 20:55

@ Omnipus - thanks for sharing

I think I just like the idea of MGs getting some benefit (other than larger ammo) for the penalty to hit un-deployed and the extra weight.

I'm really trying to not house rule the world out of things here - just beause I can, doesn't mean I should ....

For this
For MGs what I've been doing is this: a 5+ on ammo dice triggers suppression if firing at half or more of the weapon's ROF. It hasn't come up a whole ton, though, so I can't say I've tested it extensively. From the handful of times it did, it feels pretty ok, not game-breaking.

What I'm trying is that 2 5's count as a suppression (or an additional hit - I haven't decided that yet, but I'm thinking or an additional hit). @ Omnipus I think mechanically it ends up being very similar to what you are doing anyway because the chance of getting multiple 5s really only becomes significant after ROF4 anyway (because it's impossible on 1 dice, 1/36 on 2 dice, etc,) - so I'm just trying that. Like I said, I suspect it gives almost the same odds as your approach

I also toyed with the idea of allowing "machine gunner" speciality to re-roll ammo dice on a roll (not the normal test dice) rather than get the +1 bonus. I'm on the fence about this because it'll be an additional re-roll over and above pushing etc - I'm not sure

//

it's also interesting to hear about the various "GM assistance stuff" - how are you using clocks (I assume PbtA clocks).
I agree, sounds like these two approaches are more or less about the same in terms of effectiveness. So I'd say it's down to whichever is easier for you to track at the table.

In terms of clocks, yes, PbtA style clocks. I've used them for tracking enemy/faction movements and activities (each time the players delay, tick the clock, if it fills up then the enemy completes whatever they were doing) as well as for larger repair or construction projects.
Author, Central Poland Sourcebook -- now available on DriveThruRPG

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