graphite_sunray
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Joined: Wed 23 Jun 2021, 22:33

Initiative modifier for weapon types?

Wed 28 Jul 2021, 12:34

Hi all, been reading the rules in preparation for running a game with some friends. I had a thought on a simple modifier to initiative, based on the size and heft of weapons. Appreciate your thoughts on the utility of this:

Pistol/Machine Pistol - 2
Carbine/SMG - 1
AR 0
Suppressor +1
LMG/Battle Rifle/DMR +1
GPMG/Sniper Rifle +2
Anti-Materiel Rifle +3

This gives handier and smaller weapons some advantage, without massive book keeping as far as I can see.
 
sgt
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Re: Initiative modifier for weapon types?

Wed 28 Jul 2021, 16:59

I'm commenting without having actually used the system.

How do you actually plan to use the modifiers with the initiative cards?

Imo it could be nice to be able to have modifiers in initiative rolls, but I'm not sure if there's a way robust enough to add modifiers to the current system. Might not be worth it.
 
graphite_sunray
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Re: Initiative modifier for weapon types?

Wed 28 Jul 2021, 18:08

I'm commenting without having actually used the system.

How do you actually plan to use the modifiers with the initiative cards?

Imo it could be nice to be able to have modifiers in initiative rolls, but I'm not sure if there's a way robust enough to add modifiers to the current system. Might not be worth it.
Personally - I'd just have a spare 10 card deck to hand and dish out the card as the player draws (i.e - a player draws a 5 while using a subgun, I give him a 3 to lay down).

I've also thought of just using a D10 for players initiative and applying the modifier....
 
sgt
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Re: Initiative modifier for weapon types?

Wed 28 Jul 2021, 20:02

What happens when multiple actors have the same initiative? Can initiative go below 1?
 
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Re: Initiative modifier for weapon types?

Thu 29 Jul 2021, 15:52

I like the idea of weapons altering initiative, but I feel it's not easy to incorporate this feature into the game. It also seems counter-intuitive for pistols, SMGs etc. alter inititive in every instance as opposed to close-quarter combat.

Personally, I was very fond of the 1-10 card deck initiative presented in the core rules, because it avoids the problem of multiple characters having to share "turns". One could always add jack, queen and king and even a joker, if more than ten initiative slots are needed. Another simple solution is to make numbered chits and let everyone draw blind.

If one wants to incorporate weapon-based initiative modifiers, I would like to see the unambigious initiative order of the core system to be kept in place. As such, pistols, SMGs and might allow you to swap initiative cards with characters, with which you are in direct close-quarter combat (i. e. "same hex" respectively within 5 meters). The order would be for all SMG-equipped characters to change initiative with other characters (even against their will) in order of the original initiative order, then for characters equipped with pistols to do the same, but in the current order.

This allows for pistol-wielders to have to definite say, but the party with the higher SMG ratio could use their superior weaponry to pave the general way of inititive cards, because having more SMGs would allow them to "bunker" good initiative cards, of which not all might be successfully redistributed by the opposing force, simply because they have more shorter weapons. That's not how superiority of firepower works in my view. Also, carbines might be "safe" from having their initiative been taken away, allowing SMG and pistol wielding characters only to steal initiative cards from characters with rifles or heavier weapons.

This could get messy real fast though, bogging down play, which I think is now rather quick. And I like that.
liber & infractus
 
cheeplives
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Re: Initiative modifier for weapon types?

Thu 29 Jul 2021, 21:48

You could try using something similar to how Savage Worlds handles card initiative. Let Pistols/SMG draw two cards and keep the lower, putting the other back to be drawn again. You could then let more unwieldy weapons draw two and keep the higher, putting the other card back as well. You'd have to compress your scale some, but it'd probably work just slightly slower than RAW.

You could go so far as to add a quick tag to some weapons (i.e. knives, pistols, smgs, etc) and a slow tag to others (snipers, heavy bludgeons, etc) and let quick weapons draw two keep best and slow ones draw two keep worst.
 
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Re: Initiative modifier for weapon types?

Thu 29 Jul 2021, 23:33

The problem with drawing two cards is that it becomes more relevant, when you draw cards than for the standard case of only drawing one card.
liber & infractus
 
cheeplives
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Re: Initiative modifier for weapon types?

Fri 30 Jul 2021, 03:01

The problem with drawing two cards is that it becomes more relevant, when you draw cards than for the standard case of only drawing one card.
I don't follow what you're saying here.
 
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Fenhorn
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Re: Initiative modifier for weapon types?

Fri 30 Jul 2021, 03:18

One problem with "situation-based" initiative is that, because initiative is very important, the situation will be very important (and rules like this can easy be exploited). You can for example have an init-good weapon, but in your first round, you take cover and change weapon to another weapon which has nothing to do with the weapon that you earned you your good init card. Another example is that you maybe start the combat because you have a very init-good weapon, but as you first action you try to persuade the enemy to leave, something that has nothing to do with weapons (other than a weapon can be threatening).
“Thanks for noticin' me.” - Eeyore
 
cheeplives
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Re: Initiative modifier for weapon types?

Fri 30 Jul 2021, 03:36

Well, you can get around "situation" min-maxing by forcing anyone who changes weapons or tactics to re-draw their initiative.

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