cheeplives
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Posts: 107
Joined: Sat 28 Nov 2020, 09:39

Vehicle Combat

Fri 09 Jul 2021, 20:41

So, I'm having problems fully understanding vehicle combat... so I built the following flowchart... does anyone see issues with this:

Make Attack roll
  • +2 if attacker significantly smaller than target, but not using Heavy Weapons
  • -2 if firing from moving target (stabilizers negate)
  • -1 if firing at a moving target
  • -1 for each range beyond Short (FCS negate)

If hit, check for Damage
  1. Angle of attack determine Base Armor
  2. Weapon has Armor Modifier, applied to Base Armor, Creates final Modified Armor Rating
  3. Compare Modified Armor to Base Damage of weapon.
    • If Mod Armor > 2 levels above Base Damage, then attack is deflected, end of combat attack
    • If Mod Armor <= 2 levels above Base Damage, then add bonus damage from roll to make Modified Damage
  4. Compare Mod Damage to Mod armor
    • If Mod Damage > Mod Armor, damage penetrated, roll on Penetration Chart (move up chart if destroyed/not present component rolled) and roll 1d6, if <mishap icon> then ablate target armor by 1
    • If Mod Damage <= Mod Armor, damage did not penetrate, roll on Non-Penetration Chart (ignore if non-present location rolled)
  5. Damage then follow rules for location hit
    • Penetrating shots reduce Damage by armor before applying effects by location. Non-Penetrating shots only reduce due to armor if in their description.
So, assume an attack from a 120mm Main Tank gun does 10 damage with -1 Armor Rating at a M1A1 Abrams in the front Arc (Armor 12)

If it hits, it has a Mod Armor of 11, so it can damage (11 Mod Armor - 10 Base Damage = 1, which is <= 2).
  • If it deals 0 or 1 extra damage from successes, that's 10 to 11 Mod Damage to 11 Mod Armor, which does not Penetrate, so you'd roll on the Non-Penetrating column and apply 10/11 damage to whatever result comes up (e.g. you'd do 10/11 damage Crit 1 to any exposed passenger hit, but 10/11 damage reduced by 6 Armor if it hits the Main Gun).
  • If you, instead got 2 or more extra damage from successes, that'd be 12 (or more) damage to 11 armor, which would Penetrate, so you'd roll on the Penetrating column and apply 1 (or more) damage (12+ Mod Damage - 11 Mod Armor), to whatever result came up.
Does that sound correct?
 
cheeplives
Topic Author
Posts: 107
Joined: Sat 28 Nov 2020, 09:39

Re: Vehicle Combat

Mon 12 Jul 2021, 15:44

I'm gonna take a weekend of silence that I got the flow right... I was just confused on how the damage is applied as it seems the damage on a Non-Penetrating shot uses the full damage to its target, but a Penetrating shot is just the damage that gets past armor.
 
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CherryC0p
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Re: Vehicle Combat

Sat 17 Jul 2021, 09:10

The penetrating shot will be lessened by the armor it goes through, while the non penetrating shot is less of a direct hit and more likely hitting something on the side or roof, or straight up just a ricochet.

Either way, the attack hits, whether it penetrates (read as "hits vehicle in the center of the facing, rather than the edge of that side") or not is dependent on how many successes you get.

It's a bit wonky yes, but picture this example:

BMP vs Humvee:

Example 1: BMP gets 4 successes on the roll to hit, so that high damage hit punches though the door or grill of the vehicle (depending on facing) and damages the inside. The armor will negate some of it, but not all.

Example 2: BMP only gets 1 success, and that's not enough damage to penetrate the armor value, so the attacker rolls for non penetrating hit location. They either ricochet or almost miss the vehicle entirely, hitting the passenger side tire.

Thematically, it works because less successes mean a less accurate shot, so missing Center of Mass makes sense.
I do this in real life for fun on the weekends. #SurviveOmega #DoMoreWithLess
 
honestaly
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Joined: Tue 10 Aug 2021, 04:03

Re: Vehicle Combat

Tue 10 Aug 2021, 04:07

I'm still trying to understand the in game differences between APFSDS and HEAT

There are real world reasons to use both... and Statistically... esp on the 120mm main gun of the M1A1 there just isn't.
Shouldn't the APFSDS has better pen, but less range (to exemplify the drop off of APFSDS over range vs HEAT's consistent damage profile or something?

What am I missing here?
 
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Fenhorn
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Re: Vehicle Combat

Tue 10 Aug 2021, 06:56

I'm still trying to understand the in game differences between APFSDS and HEAT

There are real world reasons to use both... and Statistically... esp on the 120mm main gun of the M1A1 there just isn't.
Shouldn't the APFSDS has better pen, but less range (to exemplify the drop off of APFSDS over range vs HEAT's consistent damage profile or something?

What am I missing here?
This thread discusses this a bit more.
“Thanks for noticin' me.” - Eeyore
 
honestaly
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue 10 Aug 2021, 04:03

Re: Vehicle Combat

Tue 10 Aug 2021, 14:55

This thread discusses this a bit more.
A bit too much. So let's use this one to critique the D10 hit location table.
It seems a equal proportion of non-pennetrating hits will hit the Fire Control System as the Tracks/Wheels or body of the vehicle.
I think this would be better handled with 2D6
Die Roll       Penetrating Hit             Non-Penetrating Hit
    2              Fuel                     Fire Control System
    3              Engine                   Track/Wheel
    4              Suspension               External Stores
    5              Driver                   External Passenger
    6              Commander                Ricochet
    7              Loader                   No Effect
    8              Gunner                   Ricochet
    9              Cargo                    External Passenger
   10              Radio                    External Stores
   11              Fire Control System      Weapon
   12              Ammunition               Antenna
The concept here being that vast majority of non-penetrating his should be ricochets or No effect, and smaller external components should be hit less often than equal probabilities
The same with penetrating hits... The things that blow up or burn are generally better protected. The most commonly hit things on penetration are probably the crew.

Thoughts? Ideas?
 
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Ursus Maior
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Re: Vehicle Combat

Tue 10 Aug 2021, 22:23


A bit too much. So let's use this one to critique the D10 hit location table.
It seems a equal proportion of non-pennetrating hits will hit the Fire Control System as the Tracks/Wheels or body of the vehicle.
I think this would be better handled with 2D6

[...]

Thoughts? Ideas?
I like the idea of a 2d6 based table and have made a similar proposal to the critical hit tables for wounds and trauma. The results produced are more better, in my opinion, since one avoids an equal distribution of unequal events.
liber & infractus
 
leonpoi
Posts: 137
Joined: Fri 08 Jan 2021, 05:10

Re: Vehicle Combat

Thu 04 Nov 2021, 05:18

An old thread, but I wanted to know how you went with the table. I like the 2d6 table but was wondering how it might change the “if you roll a component not present in the vehicle or already destroyed, move ones row in table towards 1 - in this case 2”. Question - has the re-ordering of this caused some unintended consequence?
This thread discusses this a bit more.
A bit too much. So let's use this one to critique the D10 hit location table.
It seems a equal proportion of non-pennetrating hits will hit the Fire Control System as the Tracks/Wheels or body of the vehicle.
I think this would be better handled with 2D6
Die Roll       Penetrating Hit             Non-Penetrating Hit
    2              Fuel                     Fire Control System
    3              Engine                   Track/Wheel
    4              Suspension               External Stores
    5              Driver                   External Passenger
    6              Commander                Ricochet
    7              Loader                   No Effect
    8              Gunner                   Ricochet
    9              Cargo                    External Passenger
   10              Radio                    External Stores
   11              Fire Control System      Weapon
   12              Ammunition               Antenna
The concept here being that vast majority of non-penetrating his should be ricochets or No effect, and smaller external components should be hit less often than equal probabilities
The same with penetrating hits... The things that blow up or burn are generally better protected. The most commonly hit things on penetration are probably the crew.

Thoughts? Ideas?
 
baldrick0712
Posts: 672
Joined: Fri 28 May 2021, 12:29

Re: Vehicle Combat

Thu 04 Nov 2021, 14:12

You probably need separate tables for front, side and rear hits for the most realism. Shots to the rear might destroy cargo or incapacitate passengers more than shots to the front.

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