Mahatatain
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Task Checks with no Skill

Tue 29 Jun 2021, 15:29

Please can I double-check that I haven't missed something in the rules regarding task checks where the character doesn't have the relevant skill.

On page 44 it says "If you don’t have a level in the skill you’re using, just roll one (dice) for the attribute" but is there any penalty for attempting a task check without having the skill?

Taking the Driving skill for example, I believe that a character can attempt to fly a helicopter even if they don't have the Driving skill, rolling just their Agility attribute with no penalty. Is that correct? Obviously the chance of success is significantly reduced if they don't have the skill but if they have a high Agility then it's quite feasible that they will pass the task check.
 
baldrick0712
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Re: Task Checks with no Skill

Tue 29 Jun 2021, 16:18

p61 Player's Manual...

"The player describes how Kasia pleads for her life, in Polish. Having EMP B and PERSUASION C, she rolls a D10 and a D8 against just a D6 for the marauder who has EMP D and no skill level."

This is pretty clear that if you have no skill level you only roll 1 die.
 
baldrick0712
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Re: Task Checks with no Skill

Tue 29 Jun 2021, 16:32

If referees don't like the idea of untrained individuals hopping into helicopters and competently flying them due to having AGL level "A", I suppose you could make some sort of ruling on it. Most RPGs have the concept of some tasks requiring skills and others being attemptable unskilled.

[EDIT] One way to handle it would be to say that if a character has the "Pilot" specialty, they can perform basic take-offs and landings in a helicopter with no skill roll but if they don't, it requires a skill roll. Does the PC really want to risk taking off and landing in a helicopter with no pilot training when they will have a sizeable percentage chance of crashing on a failed skill roll?
Last edited by baldrick0712 on Tue 29 Jun 2021, 16:53, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Fenhorn
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Re: Task Checks with no Skill

Tue 29 Jun 2021, 16:44

There is an option (called 'Required Specialties') that if you use it require a character to have a certain specialty in order to perform a certain task. The reason that is not standard is that it can create a so called blocker in the game. If you write a scenario that involves a helicopter getaway by the players and then the only pilot in the group becomes incapacitated, then that's it for that part of the scenario and if that part is essential for the scenario, that would be it for the scenario.

The same can be said about "flavour" skills (i.e. rarely used skills mostly there to give some background for the character), if the game had whole lot of those and a scenario depend on that a player has the skill and that player dies, that would block the progression of the scenario and if you don't use them they really become just flavour (hence the name).

What I do regarding this is that, for the players, the specialty is just a bonus, but for NPC, it is a requirement. So technically all the players could fly a helicopter (even if I am not sure I would like to go up with one if the pilot hardly even can drive a car) but only pilot NPC can fly one, not the entire world.
“Thanks for noticin' me.” - Eeyore
 
leonpoi
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Re: Task Checks with no Skill

Tue 29 Jun 2021, 17:32

I was thinking some halfway point could also work. I think sometimes Required Specialties would make sense and sometimes perhaps you could say without the required speciality it’s like having a negative modifier (which likely applies to the attribute die since you likely don’t have a skill). And sometimes- just the attribute die as default.

NEGATIVE MODIFIERS: Each of the below factors can give a negative modifier to your roll:
Eg similar to - Unfamiliar equipment (e.g., mines of a foreign nation)

Ie - 3 levels of abstraction.
1. Without the speciality, it’s impossible
2. Without the speciality, it’s harder (one negative modifier)
3. Without the skill, you just roll the attribute, but it’s not harder nor impossible
 
paladin2019
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Re: Task Checks with no Skill

Tue 29 Jun 2021, 20:03

So, basically, skills can be thought of as attribute specializations that grant dice to the roll instead of improving dice?

Shooting a gun is an agility roll. You are better if you are trained. And you are better still if you are especially familiar with the type.
 
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omnipus
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Re: Task Checks with no Skill

Tue 29 Jun 2021, 21:00

Please can I double-check that I haven't missed something in the rules regarding task checks where the character doesn't have the relevant skill.

On page 44 it says "If you don’t have a level in the skill you’re using, just roll one (dice) for the attribute" but is there any penalty for attempting a task check without having the skill?

Taking the Driving skill for example, I believe that a character can attempt to fly a helicopter even if they don't have the Driving skill, rolling just their Agility attribute with no penalty. Is that correct? Obviously the chance of success is significantly reduced if they don't have the skill but if they have a high Agility then it's quite feasible that they will pass the task check.
The way I handle this is a house rule, but absolutely necessary IMO. It's two-fold:

1) There are some things you just absolutely cannot do without the skill or specialty, and these things tend to be scientific and knowledge based. Step into the control room of a nuclear reactor and hope to interpret or operate it. Correctly apply radio decryption software/hardware. Identifying specific molecular components. Doing serious astronomy or meteorology. Identifying very specific military equipment, if you don't have the background for it (or can't just read the label written on it for some reason, ie what purpose does that weird truck with the giant trusses and boxes coming off it actually serve?). A further version of this is can you tell the difference between a T-55 and a T-80? Not unless you have the experience for that... but of course a lot of T2K characters do. Everyone else just sees "tank."

2) Other things you can attempt. But I tell everyone right up front that the consequences of failure are going to be significant and maybe unforseeable to them. Flying a helicopter is a great example. Maybe that character is a natural stick and can manage to take off or land it. If they could figure out how to start it up (which I figure most people could sort out with the manual and a lot of time, anyway), I'd let them try to fly it, with something like a -2 penalty. If they don't succeed, it's going to get very ugly, very fast. If they push the roll and get mishaps, they probably won't even know what went wrong but the result will be somewhere between a flaming crater full of PCs and a helicopter that doesn't want to work right after that one flight.

Option #2 comes up more often (although never something as dramatic as a helicopter in my experience). Defusing a bomb would be another example. Messing with a power transformer. As you'd expect, the players rarely try it. But if they want to, the option is there...

Then there's a third and most common version, for stuff that really anyone can do. Which is that yeah, you just do it with only your attribute roll. Shoot a gun, sprint, try to duck-and-roll, ruck march for 30 miles. For this there's no specialty penalty other than I escalate the stakes for mishaps somewhat. If you don't know what you're doing, you're likely to just make problems worse.
Author, Central Poland Sourcebook -- now available on DriveThruRPG
 
Mahatatain
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Re: Task Checks with no Skill

Tue 29 Jun 2021, 22:32

Thanks for all of the replies. I've got a couple of ideas for house rules to stop players from taking the mickey when it comes to using untrained skills but I'm going to work them out fully before posting them here for comments.

There is an option (called 'Required Specialties') that if you use it require a character to have a certain specialty in order to perform a certain task.
Fenhorn, I'm still reading through my PDFs of the rulebooks so, if possible, please can you tell me where this rule is so that I can look it up?

Thanks for your help with this.
 
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Fenhorn
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Re: Task Checks with no Skill

Tue 29 Jun 2021, 22:53

Thanks for all of the replies. I've got a couple of ideas for house rules to stop players from taking the mickey when it comes to using untrained skills but I'm going to work them out fully before posting them here for comments.

There is an option (called 'Required Specialties') that if you use it require a character to have a certain specialty in order to perform a certain task.
Fenhorn, I'm still reading through my PDFs of the rulebooks so, if possible, please can you tell me where this rule is so that I can look it up?

Thanks for your help with this.
The infobox on page 49
“Thanks for noticin' me.” - Eeyore
 
Mahatatain
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Re: Task Checks with no Skill

Wed 30 Jun 2021, 15:21

Thanks Fenhorn. Appreciated.

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