cheeplives
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Beta - Combat Actions/Reactions

Wed 21 Apr 2021, 16:34

I feel like there needs to be some kind of spot marking/clarifying which Actions can be used only on a character's Turn and which can be used to React to others. Maybe just another column in the Action Table after the Skill that lists if the Action can be done only on the character's Turn or in Reaction to another character? Something as simple as that would make it a lot clearer and give a single spot to quickly reference without having to dig into each individual Action type.
 
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Tomas
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Re: Beta - Combat Actions/Reactions

Wed 21 Apr 2021, 17:00

You can only perform actions on your own turn, unless explicitly stated otherwise.
Fria Ligan
 
cheeplives
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Re: Beta - Combat Actions/Reactions

Wed 21 Apr 2021, 18:48

You can only perform actions on your own turn, unless explicitly stated otherwise.
Yes, I'm asking that the explicit statement of what can be done outside of your turn be added to the actions table to make it easy to look-up without having to find the individual rule section for each type of action. Adding a Column to the table of Actions (the one that lists Action/Prereqs/Skill) that lists Use (On Turn or As Reaction) would help with knowing quickly which actions are the exceptions to the rule. And an additional column shouldn't break the bank as there seems to be plenty of space.
 
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omnipus
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Re: Beta - Combat Actions/Reactions

Wed 21 Apr 2021, 21:55

It is a little strange that you can explicitly block attacks (for instance) outside of your turn, but you cannot go prone -- which is frankly the instinctive response (even when undesirable!) of most people being shot at... especially if they didn't expect it to happen!
 
cheeplives
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Re: Beta - Combat Actions/Reactions

Wed 21 Apr 2021, 22:01

It is a little strange that you can explicitly block attacks (for instance) outside of your turn, but you cannot go prone -- which is frankly the instinctive response (even when undesirable!) of most people being shot at... especially if they didn't expect it to happen!
Yeah, I agree with that, too.
 
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CherryC0p
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Re: Beta - Combat Actions/Reactions

Fri 23 Apr 2021, 19:11

You can Drop Prone as a Free Action. This happens on your turn.

You also drop prone if suppressed and can roll Mobility to drop if a grenade lands in your hex. These happen outside your turn and are not reactions or actions

I believe you also drop prone if an explosion goes off in your hex, or if you take a Critical Hit to the Legs. These happen automatically.
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cheeplives
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Re: Beta - Combat Actions/Reactions

Fri 23 Apr 2021, 22:03

You can Drop Prone as a Free Action. This happens on your turn.

You also drop prone if suppressed and can roll Mobility to drop if a grenade lands in your hex. These happen outside your turn and are not reactions or actions

I believe you also drop prone if an explosion goes off in your hex, or if you take a Critical Hit to the Legs. These happen automatically.
I think the problem is that there are so many situational exceptions to "Drop Prone is a Free Action, but only on your turn, except when suppressed, or explosion, or...etc" Maybe just make Drop Prone a Free Action you can do at any time as a reaction, much like you can Block at any time as a Reaction. Having a rule with so many exceptions doesn't really help the game and slows down play

I guess the question is why is Drop Prone only something you can do on your turn? What does it benefit the game to be that way? The only thing I can see is that it becomes a defacto "dodge" attempt... but it still robs you of a Fast Action on your next turn to negate (i.e. stand up), so I still don't see the problem.
 
welsh
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Re: Beta - Combat Actions/Reactions

Fri 23 Apr 2021, 23:47

Allowing characters to drop prone when it is not their turn leads to goofy results with initiative.

In principle, everything happening in a combat round ought to be happening at the same time: in the real world, people do not take turns to act. Initiative should only be in play when two characters are acting in ways that conflict, so the question of who goes first is important (the classic Western gunfighter showdown being the archetype).

Consider a scenario in which a group of characters is walking down a ditch, and another group opens fire with complete surprise. In the real world, we can expect several members of the attacking group to get shots off, and the game system ought to reflect this.

If we say you can only go prone on your turn, this is exactly what happens.

But if we say that you can go prone anytime, only one character gets a shot away: the attacker with the highest initiative. Everyone who isn't hit immediately goes prone in the ditch.
 
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omnipus
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Re: Beta - Combat Actions/Reactions

Sat 24 Apr 2021, 04:47

Sure, and that whole issue is immediately offset by the bonuses to fire from complete surprise and ambush.
 
welsh
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Re: Beta - Combat Actions/Reactions

Sat 24 Apr 2021, 06:46

I don't see that it is offset. There's a +3 modifier to the attack, but only one character would get to attack -- which entirely defeats the purpose of the rule giving all participants in a group ambush the top initiative cards.

And this is surely not the only scenario where allowing players to go prone at any time would mess things up.

The actions you *are* permitted on a turn other than your own make sense. Block an attack? Sure, because initiative let the other character get the drop on you, but this doesn't imply he gets to hit you for free -- you can see it coming and get a chance to block it. Go prone when a grenade thrown into your hex? Sure, because a grenade lands and sits there for a second before it explodes, and you can react.

But dropping prone when under fire is not analogous to blocking a blow. The first inkling you will have that you are under fire will be the bullet cracking past you, and in a prepared ambush there is not going to be much delay before every ambusher is raining fire down on you. Again, combat actions should be treated as near-simultaneous unless there is some good reason otherwise, because in the real world we don't take turns.

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