shankfisher
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I hate Encumbrance Units!

Tue 20 Apr 2021, 16:36

I hate the encumbrance system. We have to track encumbrance, but it's not in kilograms but in EU, even down to 0.5 and 0.25 levels of EU? How is this any better than tracking kilograms? Can we not just have kilograms? If I know the injured civilian weighs 80 kilograms, why (or how) do I have to convert it into EU? That's not easier. It also takes you out of character and setting immersion by talking in some game speak. "Yeah, sergeant I can't carry that its uh....15 encumbrance units and my encumbrance units are full." No, just no. It's harder to use than straight kilos and it kills roleplaying. Ditch it. Please.
 
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Fenhorn
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Re: I hate Encumbrance Units!

Tue 20 Apr 2021, 16:43

Encumbrance take volume and bulk into consideration, not just weight.
“Thanks for noticin' me.” - Eeyore
 
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Ser Stevos
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Re: I hate Encumbrance Units!

Tue 20 Apr 2021, 19:37

I think encumbrance units is the perfect way to handle carrying weight in this game because there is more to carrying weight than the actual weight. If you really want to kill roleplay, imagine stopping each time an item is going to be carried to figure out how many kilos it will weigh and it's dimensions as opposed to just simply reading off the encumbrance number. The game is already an inventory focused game (which is awesome!), there's no need to complicate it even more with using actual weights.
 
cheeplives
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Re: I hate Encumbrance Units!

Tue 20 Apr 2021, 20:36

Which would you find easier to carry 80 kilos of gold or 80 kilos of feathers?

I had a lot of problems when I built the Encumbrance system for the first edition of Castles and Crusades. I got a lot of flak for that, but I stand by systems that account for volume as well as weight.

The goal, however, is to build a quick and easy system to allow to adjudicate on-the-fly Encumbrance values... I haven't gotten far enough along in the Beta to see if that's accounted for (but the basics from the Alpha were okay if I remember).
 
paladin2019
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Re: I hate Encumbrance Units!

Tue 20 Apr 2021, 21:07

Wearing body armor and rucking body armor are radically different experiences.
 
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omnipus
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Re: I hate Encumbrance Units!

Tue 20 Apr 2021, 23:31

Especially if someone's shooting at you! /s

Anyway, I definitely conceptually prefer encumbrance units to tracking everything in real-world terms. What I like even more is a system like Blades In The Dark, which makes petty record-keeping pretty much a thing of the past. However, I don't think it really applies to the Twilight setting, unless you went to a more strict mission-based approach to gameplay.
 
Mr Oldtimer
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Re: I hate Encumbrance Units!

Wed 21 Apr 2021, 00:20

I don't much care which unit of measurement is used but please, let us find all the information about our gear in one place, without having to flip through the books or PDFs to find information in different chapters.
 
shankfisher
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Re: I hate Encumbrance Units!

Wed 21 Apr 2021, 04:15

Encumbrance take volume and bulk into consideration, not just weight.
There is no mention of volume, and besides that, there is no explanation of how to adjudicate volume. I want to pick up and carry my wounded battle buddy. What is the encumbrance?
 
shankfisher
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Re: I hate Encumbrance Units!

Wed 21 Apr 2021, 04:22

I think encumbrance units is the perfect way to handle carrying weight in this game because there is more to carrying weight than the actual weight. If you really want to kill roleplay, imagine stopping each time an item is going to be carried to figure out how many kilos it will weigh and it's dimensions as opposed to just simply reading off the encumbrance number. The game is already an inventory focused game (which is awesome!), there's no need to complicate it even more with using actual weights.
It is far worse than actual weights now. You have to read off an actual number anyway, but for everything, in the world that is not given an encumbrance number, you have to stop and make it up. You buddy spike the patrol dog has to be carried across the minefield. How many encumbrance units is a 30 kg dog? You kill some raiders and they have a haunch of deer roasting on the fire. How many EU is it? Oooh, I find a case of grenades in this burning humvee and I want to pull them out and carry them away. How many EU? Yeah, nobody can tell you. So the EU just adds to the headaches. It solves nothing at all. Good job. A helpful rule that is not helpful. It's like the worst sort of design "feature."
 
cheeplives
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Re: I hate Encumbrance Units!

Wed 21 Apr 2021, 04:54

Encumbrance take volume and bulk into consideration, not just weight.
There is no mention of volume, and besides that, there is no explanation of how to adjudicate volume. I want to pick up and carry my wounded battle buddy. What is the encumbrance?
They give a general concept of an item around 3kg that can be carried in one hand being around 1 Weight. I agree some more specific rules would be useful... something with broad categories:
I'd suggest a quick series of yes/no answers
  • Can it fit in a pocket? 1/2 Weight
  • Can you carry it with one hand? 2 Weight
  • Can you carry it with two hands? 6 Weight
  • Can you push/drag it? 12 Weight
  • Is it lightweight or well-balanced? Halve the weight so far
  • Is it very dense or unwieldy? Double the weight so far
I think those six questions will get you pretty far...
Let's try it out...
30kg dog: Carry with two hands... 6 Weight
Deer roasting by fire: already in the system.. how many units of Wild Food does it represent?
Case of grenades: Carry with two hands: 6 weight
Case of gold: Carry with two hands, but dense: 12 weight
Computer chasis: Carry one hand, 2 weight
Mainframe computer: Push/drag and unwieldy: 24 Weight.

That should be good enough to keep things moving.

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