User avatar
omnipus
Topic Author
Posts: 742
Joined: Mon 22 Jun 2020, 20:58

Re: NPC assistant for wounds

Mon 06 Dec 2021, 23:02

For the first part, yeah, I didn't model any situation for "body in shock but still functioning despite lethal trauma." That's a pretty interesting and dramatic one, although I'd think it should be very rare. I do know some game systems that make this almost the default for PCs who are killed. Yeah, you're going to die, but you get one last action to make it heroic.

For the second part, It might work, but rolls can be very swingy in this game, and it would make Stamina and CUF very, very strong. You'd probably end up wanting to revise all NPCs, since by default almost none of them have any rating in the Stamina skill. The numbers also don't work out great for getting those big outcomes. If someone is lucky or has high ratings in CUF/stamina, you almost need to be doing 6 damage to kill them, which restricts it to pretty much strong hits with HMGs and the like. It also makes every combat roll an opposed roll... one character rolls to hit, the amount of hits they land becomes quite important, and then the target has to make this defensive roll. That makes it even more swingy, and takes away one thing I really do like about this system: damage rolls are part of the to-hit roll itself! (of course my own table here violates that, but it's always the same roll, no thought or adjustment generally required)

The more I think about it, the more I don't like what that rule would seem to do overall... but if you try it out, let me know how it goes!
Author, Central Poland Sourcebook -- now available on DriveThruRPG
 
leonpoi
Posts: 137
Joined: Fri 08 Jan 2021, 05:10

Re: NPC assistant for wounds

Tue 07 Dec 2021, 01:24

Thanks! - but I don’t think I will try it out for the reason you say ! - I was just throwing an idea out there. I need to think

On a slightly related question on criticals - how are you finding their randomness / lethality? I’m considering making them 2d10 and pick the lowest (and then step up to d10, 2d10 etc highest for each multiple of crit threshold inflicted). (Or maybe 2d10 and lowest for exceeding crit and 2d10 and pick highest for exceed twice the crit threshold - the rationale being damage is massively non linear despite being forced on a linear scale)

I’m also considering doing this for vehicle damage (roll 2d10 and pick the highest, but if the dam exceeds the crit threshold roll d10 and if exceeded by x2 then 2d10 and pick the lowest).

The reason for both of these is that first result in achieving a crit (or penetrating shot) is so random - the chance of a broken toe is the same as getting your leg cut off - it feels very swingy to me! There’s not much scaling between e.g. got shot with a rifle for 2 dam but I’m doing fine, to damn, shot for 3, now I have the same chance of losing my leg vs losing my toenail, (and to get the next threshold is Dam 6, which isn’t going to happen with a dam 2 rifle easily)

I also don’t want to make a custom table because I want to use the GM screen that I have as a reference.
 
User avatar
omnipus
Topic Author
Posts: 742
Joined: Mon 22 Jun 2020, 20:58

Re: NPC assistant for wounds

Tue 07 Dec 2021, 01:58

I think the easiest thing to do would be make it a 2d6 table and move extreme results to the edges of probability. Easy, done -- but then like you said, you can't use your existing GM screen.

Your idea otherwise sounds fine -- except that hitting double the crit value of a weapon is close to impossible for many of them. For instance, if I hit someone with a PKM, I need 8 damage to get there! That's 6 successes! In any other case, I roll with disadvantage, which means just a 1% chance of getting a 10 result for what is a fairly lethal weapon really. With an M40 sniper rifle I need 6 damage, or 4 successes. With a Barret .50 cal, I need 3 successes.

The effect of this rule would definitely be significantly improved survival odds for whoever gets to use it (presumably just PCs?). Maybe that's what you want, but It's automatically much more lenient on the vast majority of criticals, and the severe criticals is also significantly harder to achieve than the existing rules for severe injuries.

So, my suggestion remains: make it a 2d6 roll, print it out, and tape it over the one on your GM screen. :)
Author, Central Poland Sourcebook -- now available on DriveThruRPG
 
leonpoi
Posts: 137
Joined: Fri 08 Jan 2021, 05:10

Re: NPC assistant for wounds

Tue 07 Dec 2021, 04:07

So, my suggestion remains: make it a 2d6 roll, print it out, and tape it over the one on your GM screen. :)
Ha ha. Fair enough! Do you have 2d6 tables that you already use?
 
User avatar
omnipus
Topic Author
Posts: 742
Joined: Mon 22 Jun 2020, 20:58

Re: NPC assistant for wounds

Tue 07 Dec 2021, 06:17

No, I'm lazy. :P
Author, Central Poland Sourcebook -- now available on DriveThruRPG
 
User avatar
Ursus Maior
Posts: 278
Joined: Tue 25 Aug 2020, 20:58
Contact:

Re: NPC assistant for wounds

Tue 07 Dec 2021, 20:54

No, I'm lazy. :P
I did one for psachological trauma. It's here on the forum.
liber & infractus
 
User avatar
omnipus
Topic Author
Posts: 742
Joined: Mon 22 Jun 2020, 20:58

Re: NPC assistant for wounds

Wed 08 Dec 2021, 04:16

Okay fine, I caved and did it.

HEAD
2. Concussion
3. Concussion
4. Ear slashed
5. Nose crushed
6. Shattered teeth
7. Cracked skull
8. Gouged eye
9. Brain hemorrhage
10. Shattered neck
11. Crushed windpipe
12. Brains blown out

TORSO
2. Broken ribs
3. Broken ribs
4. Snapped collarbone
5. Cracked pelvis
6. Bleeding gut
7. Ruptured kidney
8. Punctured lung
9. Cracked spine
10. Torn intestines
11. Internal bleeding
12. Heart impaled

LEGS
2. Crushed toes
3. Crushed toes
4. Dislocated knee
5. Severed tendons
6. Broken shinbone
7. Crushed ankle
8. Cracked hip
9. Thigh gash
10. Shattered knee
11. Arterial bleeding
12. Severed leg

ARMS
2. Slashed forearm
3. Slashed forearm
4. Dislocated shoulder
5. Crushed fingers
6. Dislocated elbow
7. Broken forearm
8. Crushed wrist
9. Bleeding shoulder
10. Shattered elbow
11. Arterial bleeding
12. Severed arm


I reorganized each location slightly based on what I thought might be more likely to happen. The same principle applies, however: you want to roll low if you're on the receiving end. On the whole these charts are much more lenient than the default ones in terms of terrible outcomes (the chance of the worst outcomes has gone from 1-in-10 to 1-in-36, and most others have scaled likewise) but weighted more heavily towards medium-bad ones (there's now about a 16% chance of a cracked skull, up from 10%). In total, the chance of a potentially lethal crit to the torso or head is almost exactly the same, but the ones that will kill you immediately or almost immediately are a lot less likely. And likewise, there's a smaller chance of very minor criticals.

So, you might want to do things completely differently! Between reordering the results and changing the rule for severe criticals, there's a lot of balancing to be done here. You could also definitely adjust the healing times, which are in most cases comically low -- but understandably so, so you don't have to essentially retire a character for months to keep playing.
Author, Central Poland Sourcebook -- now available on DriveThruRPG
 
User avatar
Ursus Maior
Posts: 278
Joined: Tue 25 Aug 2020, 20:58
Contact:

Re: NPC assistant for wounds

Wed 08 Dec 2021, 13:09

Interesting take. You might notice that I took the opposite path when creating my table for psychological trauma here: viewtopic.php?f=127&t=7832&p=58146&hilit=trauma

In this table, I arranged the worst (from the traumatized person's perspective) results towards the extremes and aligned the more likely results around the peak of the bell curve. This makes psychological traumata progress likely from bad to worse, meaning the first traumata rolled will likely be something like anxieties or substance abuses and sullenness.

What I did not take into account back then was the mechanic of "rerolling a previous trauma". The original tables from the PM technically would allow for simple modifiers applied to them, e. g. in case of multiple incapacitations suffered over a day, i. e. before the next sleeping phase, when the roll would be made. While this would be technically possible to use with my table (and indeed any other bell curved table) it has the strange effect of shifting the table in one direction - likely upwards - and thus making results of the lower extreme less likely and those of the upper extremes more so. I didn't take this into account, when designing my table.

However, since this isn't a rule per se, 2D6 tables offer a nice way of making desirable outcomes more likely, i. e. keeping your players alive and in the story, while still allowing for extreme results.
liber & infractus
 
User avatar
omnipus
Topic Author
Posts: 742
Joined: Mon 22 Jun 2020, 20:58

Re: NPC assistant for wounds

Wed 08 Dec 2021, 22:00

Yeah, I started out doing it similarly to how you have, but concluded that was going to be far too generous for my tastes. I didn't want to lose the big "uh oh" feeling that goes with rolling on the crit tables. For the critical damage it was also hard to define what is "more likely" -- if you're shot in the legs are you more likely to get your toes blown off, or to have an artery severed? It's not an easy call. The issue is compounded a bit since you have to already roll on the slightly-unevenly distributed hit located chart to get to this point.

I'm still not really sure I prefer the 2d6 method over the standard 1d10 tables, actually. But it's interesting to ponder.
Author, Central Poland Sourcebook -- now available on DriveThruRPG
 
leonpoi
Posts: 137
Joined: Fri 08 Jan 2021, 05:10

Re: NPC assistant for wounds

Thu 09 Dec 2021, 03:07

Thanks for being unlazy !

Here’s a thought, taking it back to my a version of multiple d10 rolls - and the multiple crit threshold default rules. As mentioned, weapons with a higher crit value actually have a harder time getting worse crits. E.g. a combat pistol can get a serious / 2d10 crit with 4 successes while a PKM needs 8 - so a pistol does less damage, but has a higher chance of blowing your arm off (for example). Something seems weird there to me, and a bit of an issue in general with the rules where the damage is trying to do too many things at once (cause damage, be used to determine crits, be checked vs armour to see if it can penetrate at all, be used to cause vehicle damage).

What about if
- if dam = crit score then a crit is scored (2d6, d10 table, whatever is chosen in your version of the house rules / game)
- if dam = crit +2 (rather than 2 steps) you get a serious critical
- etc

You could apply the penetration limit rule for vehicles (p82) across the board, even for personal armour. I.e.
- if base damage is 2 steps lower than modified armour value - attack is fully stopped - don’t even check damage
- else, check damage
- (for people) if Dam = crit or higher, you also get a crit
- for each 2 damage above crit threshold, the severity of the crit is increased

This will mean most of the time you need 2 successes for a crit and 4 for a serious crit. Heavy weapons crit (a rpg) should still be very deadly.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests