Packratt66
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri 22 Jan 2021, 09:10

Re: Firearm familiarity question

Sun 28 Feb 2021, 08:40

Welsh, I see your point about playability and such. I could get behind the having to study it for a shift to become familiar with a new weapon. But I think it would also be good to throw a penalty of some point in if an unfamiliar weapon was picked up in the middle of combat, not necessarily for the to hit but in case of reload or malfunction. This might also go for older weapons used by your own country... the M-14, for instance, for a US character. Things like changing the magazine, for instance (I think I mentioned that before someplace). The M-14 magazine has to be rocked into place, not completely unlike the AK platforms. And it is easier to damage certain magazines for the M-16/M-4 than for the M-14 mags. Mostly, it’s little stuff when you are not in combat but can become quite problematic in the heat of battle.

That having been said, at some point, I’d like to hear more about your experience changing over from the older weapons systems to the newer ones. I, myself, never had to worry with that while in the US Army at the time when I served. But I do have an infatuation with the two generations of weapons fielded prior to what I used.
 
andresk
Posts: 39
Joined: Mon 05 Oct 2020, 16:38

Re: Firearm familiarity question

Mon 01 Mar 2021, 08:57

While reloads and simple jams are certainly things you can figure out on your own when you have any kind of small arms experience, field stripping is a bit more trickier. Probably easier when you already know how to field strip one kind of an assault rifle, but still fiddling around with it for an hour might not lead you anywhere or instead you might lose a spring or a pin in the underbrush.
I'm aware most weapons are designed in kind of a foolproof way where you can only put things back in mostly one way and stripping down the weapon is not overly complicated, but then again stripping the weapon is also a very specific set of actions. Given a totally unfamiliar weapon and unlimited amount of time, sure you can figure something out, but in reality you have so many parts and pieces you can twist, bop, pull, push etc. it turns into a game of "do I really want to break this thing apart and risk losing parts or making it dysfunctional or just risk it jamming down the line".
Would love to hear actual experiences of breaking open unfamiliar weapons. I may be misremembering but I think I once managed to field strip a PPS-43, having prior knowledge of M/45 and the open bolt system. Though I also remember not understanding where the charging handle on the AR platform is when first picking one up.
How I see it actually firing the weapon should bring minimal penalties if any, reload might be trickier and disassembly is a can of worms for unfamiliar weapons. However if one of the members of the group has any experience with a specific weapon, it takes no time to share that knowledge. Or just asking around a trading post or something. Being a first sgt and having an interest in how different weapons function, I'd say I have a lot more knowledge on the topic than most, so I can't exactly give a neutral take on the matter. However I've seen rank and file soldiers do all kinds of weird crap trying to reach in trigger groups and other small places instead of simply removing a pin or two.
 
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pelorus
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Re: Firearm familiarity question

Sun 07 Mar 2021, 15:25

Nothing too complicated. But something to penalize a player for looting a random firearm from a opponent and using it fully. I’m not sure if this is too annoying to deal with or not but something I was thinking about.
When we switched from the SLR/L1A1 (semi-automatic version of the FN FAL) to the SA90 (The L85A1), we didn't get a heap of cross-training. We just started shooting and learned the things we needed to quickly.

But maintenance was different. Dismantling a SLR was very different to dismantling a SA80. So, until they spend some time figuring that out, an increased chance of breakdown might be appropriate. And maybe reduction in to-hit is fine reflecting time for familiarity and the build-up of carbon in the mechanisms.
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Writer of The 23rd Letter, SpaceNinjaCyberCrisis XDO and ZOMBI.
http://lategaming.com
 
TIgernan
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue 09 Mar 2021, 21:32

Re: Firearm familiarity question

Wed 10 Mar 2021, 19:31

I served two tours (eight+ years in the Marines) and was a police officer for fifteen. So this is my opinion and only my opinion on firearms familiarity.

To me, if an untrained person picks up a weapon then changes to a different weapon of the same type, they may have difficulty operating it correctly or how to correct a malfunction. This is just from not knowing firearms in general.

However, you take someone who has been trained or has used a particular firearm for some time; months or years... they are going to understand how most firearms operate and would be able to operate a foreign weapon to them and even be able to correct battle field malfunctions (immediate and remedial actions for most weapon types are usually the same). As for using a weapon, different weapons have different factors that change how someone fires them; trigger pull weight, recoil and anti-recoil systems, weight of the weapon and where that weight is on the weapon... so sure you could impose a penalty for not being familiar with a weapon platform.

With that being said, if you are just imposing a -1, that doesn't seem unreasonable to me for picking up a weapon your character is not familiar with. But on the flip side, not imposing a penalty and using the rules as written wouldn't seem out of place to me either as firearms of a type are fundamentally the same. Just a matter of what a GM and/or players feel should be the case. Kinda like house rules; vast majority of games don't need house rules but some people feel the need to add anywhere from a few house rules or to add hundreds of house rules, it is just a GMs take on what works and doesn't and how they want their game. Neither way is wrong or better, just personal choice.

Just my two cents,
Patrick

Oh, and on the topic of zeroing a weapon with adjustable sights... When you properly zero a weapon with adjustable sights, you are zeroing it for you and you alone. This doesn't mean that someone else cannot pick up your weapon and not hit a target. Just means that all things being equal, his rounds are going to strike slightly off from where your rounds are going to strike and sometimes this means off target. Boresighting is different than zeroing a weapon.

And to give an example; when I served... my Gunny wanted a fellow Marine (my security element) and myself to zero each others M16A4s, just in case we had to pick up the others weapon and use it. Both weapons only had iron sights, both adjustable. When he zeroed his M16A4, he was flush on the front sight, and had three clicks right. But when I zeroed the exact same rifle I had to go two clicks down on his front sight post and thirteen clicks left on the rear. And then for my own M16A4 I was flush on the front and seven left on the rear... when he zeroed my rifle, he was flush on the front and zero clicks (centered) on the rear. Go figure. LOL
~ Not as lean, or as mean, but always a Marine
~ Go with God, but make him walk point.
 
andresk
Posts: 39
Joined: Mon 05 Oct 2020, 16:38

Re: Firearm familiarity question

Thu 11 Mar 2021, 09:59

Oh, and on the topic of zeroing a weapon with adjustable sights... When you properly zero a weapon with adjustable sights, you are zeroing it for you and you alone. This doesn't mean that someone else cannot pick up your weapon and not hit a target. Just means that all things being equal, his rounds are going to strike slightly off from where your rounds are going to strike and sometimes this means off target. Boresighting is different than zeroing a weapon.
This is a good point, I pretty much thought of zeroing as boresighting in the current context, but there really is a difference. I guess the biggest factor is how each individual is built (height, arm length etc.) and thus how they shoulder, cheek weld and achieve sight picture. That would dictate how they zero the rifle for themselves. On the other hand if the same rifle is boresighted, it should be more or less zeroed for everyone picking it up and any deviation comes from their individual (improper) sight picture.
 
TIgernan
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue 09 Mar 2021, 21:32

Re: Firearm familiarity question

Thu 11 Mar 2021, 21:24

Absolutely. And typically a vast majority of people can pick up a properly boresighted weapon and with minimal to no adjustments can get rounds on target at targets within 100 to 200 yards/meters thus zero is close to boresighted. But not always the case. Though I do like that you used "improper" sight picture, as most novice shooters do all manner of weird things when they go to fire a weapon. LOL
~ Not as lean, or as mean, but always a Marine
~ Go with God, but make him walk point.

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