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The JollyGM
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Armor Pen on vehicles and Small Arms

Sat 19 Dec 2020, 17:27

So, been reading the rules on vehicle combat, and if i am reading the rules as written on vehicle combat, a lucky roll of the dice (very unlikely but possible) when firing a LMG can pen the armor of an APC or even some tanks rear or side armor.
Against unarmored, or light skinned vehicles.. sure.. but APCs or tanks???
Am I missing the rule somewhere that stops this from happening?
 
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Fenhorn
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Re: Armor Pen on vehicles and Small Arms

Sat 19 Dec 2020, 18:06

Not only lucky, extremely lucky I must say. If it does penetrate, there aren't that much damage left to do that much damage so that will most likely be the last thing that machinegunner did. The chance of this is very remote, I don't have any problems with it. You can explain it with that all of the vehicles have been in a lot of battles and have been repaired with improvised jury-rigging most likely due to lack of proper supplies.
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The JollyGM
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Re: Armor Pen on vehicles and Small Arms

Sat 19 Dec 2020, 19:45

Just that if it does pen.. and scores a good enough hit.. I can see that being a source of contention with some players
 
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Fenhorn
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Re: Armor Pen on vehicles and Small Arms

Sat 19 Dec 2020, 20:48

I̶f̶ ̶w̶e̶ ̶t̶a̶k̶e̶ ̶a̶n̶ ̶L̶M̶G̶ ̶(̶2̶ ̶d̶a̶m̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶0̶ ̶p̶e̶n̶)̶,̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶m̶a̶x̶i̶m̶u̶m̶ ̶d̶a̶m̶a̶g̶e̶ ̶a̶ ̶b̶u̶l̶l̶e̶t̶ ̶c̶a̶n̶ ̶c̶a̶u̶s̶e̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶6̶ ̶(̶r̶o̶l̶l̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶1̶0̶-̶1̶2̶ ̶o̶n̶ ̶b̶o̶t̶h̶ ̶b̶a̶s̶e̶ ̶d̶i̶c̶e̶)̶.̶ ̶T̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶w̶i̶l̶l̶ ̶p̶e̶n̶e̶t̶r̶a̶t̶e̶ ̶a̶ ̶R̶u̶s̶s̶i̶a̶n̶ ̶M̶B̶T̶ ̶b̶y̶ ̶1̶ ̶p̶o̶i̶n̶t̶ ̶(̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶R̶u̶s̶s̶i̶a̶n̶ ̶o̶n̶e̶s̶ ̶h̶a̶v̶e̶ ̶5̶ ̶R̶e̶a̶r̶ ̶A̶r̶m̶o̶r̶)̶ ̶o̶r̶ ̶a̶n̶ ̶A̶P̶C̶ ̶b̶y̶ ̶2̶ ̶p̶o̶i̶n̶t̶s̶ ̶(̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶R̶u̶s̶s̶i̶a̶n̶ ̶o̶n̶e̶s̶ ̶h̶a̶v̶e̶ ̶4̶ ̶R̶e̶a̶r̶ ̶A̶r̶m̶o̶r̶)̶.̶ ̶T̶h̶i̶s̶ ̶m̶e̶a̶n̶s̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶c̶a̶n̶ ̶c̶a̶u̶s̶e̶ ̶1̶ ̶p̶o̶i̶n̶t̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶d̶a̶m̶a̶g̶e̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶i̶n̶t̶e̶r̶i̶o̶r̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶a̶ ̶R̶u̶s̶s̶i̶a̶n̶ ̶M̶B̶T̶ ̶i̶f̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶h̶i̶t̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶r̶e̶a̶r̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶d̶o̶ ̶m̶a̶x̶i̶m̶u̶m̶ ̶d̶a̶m̶a̶g̶e̶ ̶(̶r̶o̶u̶g̶h̶l̶y̶ ̶6̶%̶ ̶c̶h̶a̶n̶c̶e̶)̶.̶ ̶Y̶o̶u̶ ̶h̶a̶v̶e̶ ̶1̶7̶%̶ ̶c̶h̶a̶n̶c̶e̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶p̶e̶n̶e̶t̶r̶a̶t̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶a̶n̶ ̶A̶P̶C̶ ̶b̶y̶ ̶1̶ ̶p̶o̶i̶n̶t̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶6̶%̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶p̶e̶n̶e̶t̶r̶a̶t̶e̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶b̶y̶ ̶2̶ ̶p̶o̶i̶n̶t̶s̶.̶ ̶A̶l̶l̶ ̶t̶h̶i̶s̶ ̶a̶s̶s̶u̶m̶e̶s̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶h̶a̶v̶e̶ ̶A̶ ̶A̶ ̶w̶i̶t̶h̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶R̶a̶n̶g̶e̶d̶ ̶C̶o̶m̶b̶a̶t̶ ̶s̶k̶i̶l̶l̶ ̶r̶o̶l̶l̶ ̶a̶g̶a̶i̶n̶s̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶v̶e̶h̶i̶c̶l̶e̶ ̶(̶f̶r̶o̶m̶ ̶b̶e̶h̶i̶n̶d̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶M̶B̶T̶)̶.̶ ̶T̶h̶i̶s̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶n̶o̶t̶ ̶e̶x̶p̶l̶o̶s̶i̶v̶e̶ ̶h̶i̶t̶s̶ ̶s̶o̶ ̶t̶h̶i̶s̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶a̶l̶l̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶d̶o̶e̶s̶.̶ ̶N̶o̶n̶e̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶s̶e̶ ̶h̶i̶t̶s̶ ̶w̶i̶l̶l̶ ̶d̶o̶ ̶a̶n̶y̶t̶h̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶s̶p̶e̶c̶t̶a̶c̶u̶l̶a̶r̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶v̶e̶h̶i̶c̶l̶e̶ ̶o̶r̶ ̶i̶t̶s̶ ̶p̶a̶s̶s̶e̶n̶g̶e̶r̶s̶.̶

But who knows, perhaps these stats will be modified before the alpha period is over.

edit (the above numbers are wrong so here are some real ones):
If we take an LMG (2 dam and 0 pen), the maximum damage a bullet can cause is 5 (rolling 10-12 on both base dice). You have 6% chance of penetrating an APC by 1 point. This assumes that you have A A with the Ranged Combat skill roll against the vehicle. This is not an explosive hit so this is all it does. It will not do anything spectacular to the vehicle or its passengers.
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The JollyGM
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Re: Armor Pen on vehicles and Small Arms

Sat 19 Dec 2020, 22:03

You mean the max damage a LMG can roll is 8.. .2 for base damage and 1 for each Ammo dice.. so potentially 8.. very very unlikely as you stated though.. But yeah, we will see whats coming.
 
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Fenhorn
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Re: Armor Pen on vehicles and Small Arms

Sat 19 Dec 2020, 22:06

You mean the max damage a LMG can roll is 8.. .2 for base damage and 1 for each Ammo dice.. so potentially 8.. very very unlikely as you stated though.. But yeah, we will see whats coming.
I actually miscalculated, sorry, the max damage for an LMG is 5: Weapon damage 2 + 1 for each extra stunt = 5. Ammo dice hits counts as separate bullets.
“Thanks for noticin' me.” - Eeyore
 
bayne
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Re: Armor Pen on vehicles and Small Arms

Sun 20 Dec 2020, 00:21

You mean the max damage a LMG can roll is 8.. .2 for base damage and 1 for each Ammo dice.. so potentially 8.. very very unlikely as you stated though.. But yeah, we will see whats coming.
I actually miscalculated, sorry, the max damage for an LMG is 5: Weapon damage 2 + 1 for each extra stunt = 5. Ammo dice hits counts as separate bullets.
Ok so in this example. Your first bullet does 5 damage? and each subsequent hit from the ammo dice does 2 damage? So only the first would penetrate? This makes a lot of sense now. If you look at some of the bigger MGs I think you might still run into this issue. (DSzKM HMG could penetrate a tank)
 
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Fenhorn
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Re: Armor Pen on vehicles and Small Arms

Sun 20 Dec 2020, 00:43

You mean the max damage a LMG can roll is 8.. .2 for base damage and 1 for each Ammo dice.. so potentially 8.. very very unlikely as you stated though.. But yeah, we will see whats coming.
I actually miscalculated, sorry, the max damage for an LMG is 5: Weapon damage 2 + 1 for each extra stunt = 5. Ammo dice hits counts as separate bullets.
Ok so in this example. Your first bullet does 5 damage? and each subsequent hit from the ammo dice does 1 damage? So only the first would penetrate? This makes a lot of sense now. If you look at some of the bigger MGs I think you might still run into this issue. (DSzKM HMG could penetrate a tank)
The hit from the base dice in my can do max do 5 damage. The ammo dice can only cause weapon damage (2 for an LMG). My miscalculated example a couple of post above is a valid example for a GPMP (and with higher % if using an HMG). But still you need to be very lucky, and all my examples assumes that you have A A with you are shooting, something that is unlikely. For it to be possible, you probably must be within short range and stationary (and in the right angle) and still, the damage is not explosive so it can damage something inside with a point or so, but that's it. Then the tank will return the fire and he doesn't need to be super lucky to hit and he will most likely do more than token damage.

But, hey who knows. The stats may change before this alpha-period is over and if it doesn't change then I can live with it (if my players want to be heroically cinematic, I welcome them).
“Thanks for noticin' me.” - Eeyore
 
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The JollyGM
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Re: Armor Pen on vehicles and Small Arms

Sun 20 Dec 2020, 00:47



I actually miscalculated, sorry, the max damage for an LMG is 5: Weapon damage 2 + 1 for each extra stunt = 5. Ammo dice hits counts as separate bullets.
Ok so in this example. Your first bullet does 5 damage? and each subsequent hit from the ammo dice does 1 damage? So only the first would penetrate? This makes a lot of sense now. If you look at some of the bigger MGs I think you might still run into this issue. (DSzKM HMG could penetrate a tank)
The hit from the base dice in my can do max do 5 damage. The ammo dice can only cause weapon damage (2 for an LMG). My miscalculated example a couple of post above is a valid example for a GPMP (and with higher % if using an HMG). But still you need to be very lucky, and all my examples assumes that you have A A with you are shooting, something that is unlikely. For it to be possible, you probably must be within short range and stationary (and in the right angle) and still, the damage is not explosive so it can damage something inside with a point or so, but that's it. Then the tank will return the fire and he doesn't need to be super lucky to hit and he will most likely do more than token damage.

But, hey who knows. The stats may change before this alpha-period is over and if it doesn't change then I can live with it (if my players want to be heroically cinematic, I welcome them).
Ahh see, now I had read the rules wrong, but what you said about the ammo dice is now very clear!! I was adding 1 to the dmg for each 6 to it, but that is not the case.. Wicked.. thank you!
 
bayne
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Re: Armor Pen on vehicles and Small Arms

Sun 20 Dec 2020, 00:48

I am trying to figure out how you get to 5. 2 base plus 4 successes is 6 damage? That is assuming an AA on your skills.

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