paladin2019
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To Aim or Not

Mon 07 Dec 2020, 18:15

This is a rant about personal preference, but I hate that the base shooting mechanic relies on spending a second action on aimed fire. 1e assumed quick fire and aiming doubled your hit chances. 2e assumed aimed fire and halved your hit chances for faster shooting. Whichever route is taken, sound game design should default to a single action providing the base task resolution mechanic. Dropping two die types because you don't spend the obligate second action to aim is not useful to the game, but using this as the penalty for attempting to shoot as a fast action rather than a slow one is perfectly acceptable. (This, of course, would have to limit all ranged combat on the turn to fast actions, otherwise it's a free bonus attack.)

In terms of success chances, this game already takes a system similar to Savage Worlds and then makes things harder. Needing sixes to hit isn't going to be negatively affected by not requiring a second action to use the base mechanics.
 
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Ser Stevos
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Re: To Aim or Not

Mon 07 Dec 2020, 20:23

I agree with these sentiments to a degree. I'd add that a problem I saw with the "fast aim action" was you could not run up (only two hexes), aim, and then fire your weapon all in the same turn. I don't know if this can be solved by moving aiming or running to a free action or even should be solved. Could just be a quirk of the system. I very much love the telescopic sight needs a slow action to aim; it fits well into the combat system.
 
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Fenhorn
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Re: To Aim or Not

Mon 07 Dec 2020, 20:30

I was a little bit surprised that they didn't went with a Slow action = normal fire; Fast action = quickfire and then an extra action (Slow/Fast) for aimed fire. That would be similar to what they do their other systems.

Technically the current system is the same as my example here, it just makes fires appears slower compared to other actions in combat. I have not tested the system yet so I have no idea how it plays out. I will have to do some testing of it.
“Thanks for noticin' me.” - Eeyore
 
welsh
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Re: To Aim or Not

Mon 07 Dec 2020, 21:18

If you make fast action = quick fire then you need to adjust ammo consumption accordingly, as now you can consume twice the ammo in one round. Otherwise it makes sense.
 
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Fenhorn
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Re: To Aim or Not

Mon 07 Dec 2020, 21:21

I plan to do some test combats, using some maps and markers from my Ambush game and some standard NPCs. I am curios how it plays out.
“Thanks for noticin' me.” - Eeyore
 
paladin2019
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Re: To Aim or Not

Mon 07 Dec 2020, 21:25

If you make fast action = quick fire then you need to adjust ammo consumption accordingly, as now you can consume twice the ammo in one round.
That's a problem?
 
welsh
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Re: To Aim or Not

Mon 07 Dec 2020, 22:26

It's a problem if the rate of fire in the game system is supposed to represent the rate of fire one might reasonably achieve in the real world.
 
paladin2019
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Re: To Aim or Not

Mon 07 Dec 2020, 22:48

It's a problem if the rate of fire in the game system is supposed to represent the rate of fire one might reasonably achieve in the real world.
An M16A1 or A3 has a cyclic rate in he neighborhood of 850 rpm. At up to 6 ammo dice per attack, that's up to 72 rounds* in up to 10 seconds. Works for me. Firing that quickly is not only well within the realm of possibility, it's an example of "Play stupid games, win stupid prizes."

*Not that the rules will allow this. After burning through the first mag, it will be at least another fast action to reload. You won't shoot more than 30 rounds per turn in actual play.
 
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Fenhorn
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Re: To Aim or Not

Mon 07 Dec 2020, 22:59

The rate of fire represent what you can shoot with the weapon compared to the other kind of actions you can do in a fight. So from that point of view gunfire will be much more dangerous if changing the aiming rules, since you can fire much faster (spending less actions) than you can move, take cover and all that.
“Thanks for noticin' me.” - Eeyore
 
paladin2019
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Re: To Aim or Not

Mon 07 Dec 2020, 23:29

The rate of fire represent what you can shoot with the weapon compared to the other kind of actions you can do in a fight. So from that point of view gunfire will be much more dangerous if changing the aiming rules, since you can fire much faster (spending less actions) than you can move, take cover and all that.
If that's the goal, move or aimed fire, I think you can get that changing actions to 2 fast or 1 slow rather than 1 fast and 1 slow. I find, from a game design standpoint, requiring an additional action spent aiming (or any preparatory activity) to reach a flat roll to be a poor design choice. When defining the action economy, preparatory actions should enhance the flat roll, not be required to achieve it.

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