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Except that the mishap mechanic is already built in to every roll...isn't this just piling on? If I roll the 6, I don't get the benefit, but I get to ADD a 17% chance of failure to EVERY shot I take?

Ouch.

Perhaps FL wanted the chance of a weapon jam to be more than just 1-2%.

Except that the mishap mechanic is already built in to every roll...isn't this just piling on? If I roll the 6, I don't get the benefit, but I get to ADD a 17% chance of failure to EVERY shot I take?

Ouch.

Perhaps FL wanted the chance of a weapon jam to be more than just 1-2%.

Then add in a wear and tear mechanic, Or, make every mishap die roll affect the weapon not just if both are mishaps...

Again, I considered wear and tear, and ammo expenditure...but there is currently NO mechanic that allows me to use a single bullet for a single shot. Every shot I take uses a minimum of 2 rounds - or I suffer a mishap which, right now, will happen 17% of the time.

Unless I use multiple Ammo dice, then my odds go up dramatically...

31% with two ammo dice
42% with three ammo dice
52% with four ammo dice...
An M249 on full "rock-n-roll" has a 67% chance of suffering a mishap...

We'll see how it plays, but I am thinking this is going to get "house ruled" a LOT...

M.

If you have Agility D and Ranged Combat D and uses 1 ROF, you have roughly 7% chance of a mishap. A mishap will tear down the weapon and also gives you a risk for a jam.

Except that the mishap mechanic is already built in to every roll...isn't this just piling on? If I roll the 6, I don't get the benefit, but I get to ADD a 17% chance of failure to EVERY shot I take?

Where do you get the "17% chance of failure" from? A mishap only occurs if you roll two (or more) ones, assuming you have at least skill level D in Ranged Combat. Also, a mishap will only trigger a reliability roll, which is unlikely to cause a jam if your weapon is in good condition (only 18% assuming reliability A). Finally, even if your weapons does jam, it does so after the attack, so there is no chance of "failure" due to mishaps.

Where do you get the "17% chance of failure" from? A mishap only occurs if you roll two (or more) ones, assuming you have at least skill level D in Ranged Combat.

I think it's from the fact that it's two or more ones on any dice you roll. The more Ammo dice, the higher odds of getting two or more ones. Rolling 4d6 (rof 4 weapon) you have around a 16% chance to roll 2 or more ones, and that doesn't even take into account your skill. If you're D rated in Combat and agility, it ends up being 25% or so chance of mishap on 6d6. The more you fire, the greater the odds of mishap occurring, without regard to skill at all.

And the amount of Ammo used can be pretty high, too. Maybe allow the CUF stat to reduce Ammo expended by its die type (to a minimum of Ammo dice rolled)? So I shoot my m16 and get 18 on my Ammo dice, but I have a C CUF, so I reduce the ammo spent by 8 to 10?

If you want to have a low chance of a mishap and/or spend less ammo, you don't go full auto, you use short controlled bursts, in this game that is represented by using a ROF of 1. Just because you can use a lot of ROF, you don't have to.

If you want to have a low chance of a mishap and/or spend less ammo, you don't go full auto, you use short controlled bursts, in this game that is represented by using a ROF of 1. Just because you can use a lot of ROF, you don't have to.

Yes, that is an option, but the way the game is set up you have a 25% chance of mishap WHENEVER you use 4 Ammo dice. That's basically saying that a pintle mounted MG get messed up a quarter of the time its used in combat. That .50 cal on the Abrams? After suppressing the enemy for a bit, it's definitley going to need to be replaced/repaired/unjammed. Once again, this is a spot where the mechanics start creating disincentives for specific actions due to flukes of the system, not because of any kind of modeled reality, verisimilitude, or reason... it's just a wrinkle with no real reason.

Making CUF also play a role in trigger discipline/ammo use makes that stat even more useful and I think adds to the verisimilitude of well trained military folk doing a better job of "counting shots" than untrained civvies.

If you want to have a low chance of a mishap and/or spend less ammo, you don't go full auto, you use short controlled bursts, in this game that is represented by using a ROF of 1. Just because you can use a lot of ROF, you don't have to.

Yes, that is an option, but the way the game is set up you have a 25% chance of mishap WHENEVER you use 4 Ammo dice. That's basically saying that a pintle mounted MG get messed up a quarter of the time its used in combat. That .50 cal on the Abrams? After suppressing the enemy for a bit, it's definitley going to need to be replaced/repaired/unjammed. Once again, this is a spot where the mechanics start creating disincentives for specific actions due to flukes of the system, not because of any kind of modeled reality, verisimilitude, or reason... it's just a wrinkle with no real reason.

Making CUF also play a role in trigger discipline/ammo use makes that stat even more useful and I think adds to the verisimilitude of well trained military folk doing a better job of "counting shots" than untrained civvies.

Adding to what Cheep said:

What we're seeing is a potentially unrealistic ammo expenditure and breakdown rate for allegedly "trained" shooters. With each potential mishap, the rating drops on your weapon, and it isn't inconceivable that a run of bad dice could drive a spec ops characters weapon from A to D in 3 bursts...and drain 3 magazines...something that statistically should never happen...

I get that it's only a 12% fail rate guaranteed with 4 ammo dice (based on ammo dice alone), and I get that you use short, controlled bursts - I was a Marine. I've been through the Police Academy. I've carried and/or qualified with many of the US weapons listed. And in my experience, your ammo burn rates and failure rates are too high.

I love the idea of weapon quality ratings and wear and tear degrading weapons....great add...but a well maintained weapon shouldn't have a really high fail rate.

When the M16 was introduced, it had a malfunction rate of 2 per 1000 rounds...by the year 2000, the A2's were common, they had a 1% malfunction rate. A weapon with an "A" reliability rating shouldn't be misfiring and degrading that quickly.

And I think the ammo expenditure needs tweaking.

A bolt action sniper rifle has a RoF of one...I am not likely to fire 6 shots in a 5-10 second window AND hit multiple targets while doing so. Snipers by definition don't use "spray and pray"...but the Ammo Spent mechanic doesn't differentiate. There is no option for "Short, controlled bursts" because the Ammo dice may fire 5 rounds on a single die...or on 3 dice...MY control is almost entirely removed in favor of random die rolls.

My group will be test driving this today - We'll see...

I can agree that weapon reliability decreases a little to fast (I have not tested the system so I don't actually know how this plays out). Regarding CUF, I think it already plays such a big part in the game and if you are an experienced shooter you already benefit from that by using SCB (use ROF 1 for example) when shooting.

edit: I actually thought there would be a single shot combat option in the game to be honest. Maybe we can have one added.

HEAVY WEAPONS such as RPGs, grenade launchers, mortars and howitzers don’t use ammo dice. Instead, each attack consumes one round of ammo.

BOWS AND THROWN weapons also don’t give you ammo dice. Each time you shoot a bow, one arrow or thrown weapon is used.

Player's manual, p 61


Something like that could be applicable to single-shot weapons